The Good Stewards Real Estate Podcast

Are Real Estate Values Changing?

Episode Summary

It feels like the world has stopped, but the businesses we interact with regularly--even lenders--are still conducting business normally. Everyone in business, real estate or not is taking things day by day. In this episode, recorded March 30th, we talk about the shifting market, stimulus, even worst-case scenarios for us. But the biggest question is, are home values changing, we think they will?

Episode Notes

State of Economy Discussion:

3:25: The purpose of the stimulus is to keep us from a recession spiraling into a depression, which none of us want and would make matters all that much worse.

5:10: So many people are being affected even if you’re not. So with that in mind, this has now extended past a “few weeks”, there will be impact.

8:35: The world does sort of feel like everything stopped, but people are still working. We were mid-refinance in several markets, those are still happening.

12:15: Go ahead and think about your absolute worst case scenario so you can just deal with it. If college football doesn’t start back up and the universities don’t start back up, that’s our worst case.

What You Do Now, Makes A Difference:

14:25: I would say now more than ever those that are going to come out on the winning side of it are those who are acting proactively, who are looking at their businesses, looking at the models, figuring out how to tweak them.

16:13: It can be uncomfortable to think about doing something different because in your mind it's like this is how we do things. Reality check is that “how we do things” could have ended two weeks or three weeks ago at this point.

19:30: Back in the recession of 2008, Bill asked two private lenders on a fairly expensive property if they’d be willing to take less in interest from what we owed them. In times like these, having those conversations may be necessary.

Are Home Values Changing?:

22:45: If your business is relying on an FHA loan buyer, those investor-backed loans might be hard to close right now.

23:49: Be careful with flipping right now. CNBC reported recently that home sales could fall by 35% this year.

25:32: What’s your exit strategy? DO you have multiple?

27:40: It’s so hard to guess if prices are going to go to 2008 levels. That happened because of bad lending practices. We're going through something entirely different, there’s not an actual issue in the economy.

29:18: The Dot-Com crash was stock related. It was the only recession in history to date* where home values actually increased.

32:35: The biggest takeaway is that just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean that's going to work now. It’s time to get out of your comfort zone and be proactive.

Connect with the Good Stewards:

Episode Transcription

Ryan: (00:00) If you are one of our lovely, valuable listeners who enjoy our content, I'm going to ask that you get out of your comfort zone a little bit and tell your friends about us. I've had a number of you reach out to me and tell me that the content is so good, you don't want your competitors to hear about it. But ultimately the reason we run this show is to impact real estate investors' lives all around the country and we ask that you kind of get behind that mission of the Good Stewards, be a Good Steward of the information you're getting and benefiting from and give it to somebody who needs it. Thanks, y'all.

INTRO: (00:37) Welcome to The Good Stewards podcast, the only podcast dedicated to seasoned real estate investors who want to maximize the cashflow potential in their business. We are “buy and hold” investors with a thousand plus properties and markets across the U.S. who bring an insider's view into the nitty gritty details of real estate investing. If you're looking to develop the mindset teams and systems that can dramatically build your real estate business and network, you're in the right place.

Ryan: (01:10) Welcome to this episode of The Good Stewards podcast. I'm Ryan Dossey.

Amanda: (01:14) I’m Amanda Perkins.

Bill: (01:15) I'm Bill Syrios.

Andrew: (01:16) And I'm Andrew Syrios.

Bill: (01:18) In a moment I'm going to give you my favorite all time quote, maybe my favorite business quote, all right? But before I do, please subscribe to the Good Stewards at and like us, tell your friends, share it around. These are uncertain times and we're going to try to give a little bit of certainty, well, a little teeny bit of certainty in our conversation here today and we hope that you'll join us often. The favorite quote, all right, so Everett Dirksen was the minority leader in the Senate during the 60s and you have to understand the budget was about $750 billion was the GDP during that era. It's now $21 trillion. So slightly different times. He was on the Johnny Carson show, talking about the excessive government spending that was going on and out of his lips came this quote. And of course, I didn't hear it at firsthand, this is back in the 60s, all right?


(02:18) He said, “A billion here, a billion there. Pretty soon it adds up to real money”. Now I'd like to paraphrase Everett's quote for today. Can anybody think of what the paraphrase would be?

Ryan: (02:30) A trillion here, a trillion there.

Bill: (02:33) Pretty soon…

Ryan: (02:34) It adds $1,200 for the average family.

Bill: (02:37) To real money. That's right. So that's just what passed and not too long ago as a stimulus package. Now you have to put that in perspective because if we have a $21 trillion GDP in our country, what that is trying to do is to kind of enable us to get through what's obviously a difficult time for many industries in our economy. So, the federal government's coming in and say, “We're going to flood the zone with money to help this economy”. It says, to give it maybe a month or maybe more of stimulus that will supplant the fact that our GDP next year is going to go down considerably.

(03:21) So that's where the stimulus, that's kind of the “why”, “what for” of the stimulus. Of course, our children and grandchildren will be paying for that, we expect. But for the near term, what is trying to do is to keep us from a recession spiraling into a depression, which none of us want and would make matters all that much worse. So, how are we to think about that as we look at the landscape? Because that money is going to be spread out among many industries. Corporations think of the airlines who are hardly making a dime. They're losing money hand over fist. The entertainment industry, the lodging industry. So many are on life support. So, this is kind of a lifeline that the federal government's throwing our economy and we're all here to try to sift through how that might make a difference for real estate investors. I don’t know anybody….

Ryan: (04:18) I think as investors we're a little spoiled and that first off, we are still counted as an essential business, which is a huge blessing I think. But I think for me personally, I kind of had this like super ignorant view of it, of like, well, yeah, like it's kind of everybody's taking pause for a month and then life will go back to normal. And that's like, I don't know, super privileged and naïve like part of like, there are people that are paycheck to paycheck and companies that are paycheck to paycheck, that a month or two of being closed, that's going to be it. So I think as investors it's important to keep that in mind of just because it maybe hasn't personally affected you all that much, or maybe it has, but that's not necessarily the case for things like local restaurants, local small businesses, especially stuff that's more I would say slimmer margins. So, stuff like local small businesses and craft shops. And that kind of stuff. Tourism in particular. So, I know for me that's kind of a change I've had of realizing like, okay, this has been more than a few weeks, this is going to be a problem.

Bill: (05:36) I think what Ryan is saying is there's a call for empathy, empathy to start off with. There's going to be definitely “haves” and “have nots” in this society as we know when it comes to extra spinning - You don't have to go out to the restaurant, you don't have to fly here, you don't have to stay at this hotel or Airbnb. All these extraneous things just get sifted out of the system very quickly and people kind of roll up into their ball and see what are the absolute expenses that “I have to have” and those that “I can do without”.

Ryan: (06:08) I saw a meme for the airline industry that was incredible, that was like, Oh, the airline industry is struggling with their finances. Well, maybe they should just cut out lattes every day.

Bill: (06:19) Yeah, right.

Andrew: (06:20) To not buy back their stocks every day.

Bill: (06:23) That would have been nice earlier on, but now there's stocks are at a lot lower price or they can't even sell them at a break even. So, it is what it is. We're all in this together at different levels. But I would say if you have a solid job and if you have income coming in, you're in a very good place. Obviously if you don't, you're scrambling around. But as real estate investors, the question is how do you look at uncertain times? And how do you think about on one hand, protecting yourself on the downside and what you have already, and then on the other hand, how do you carve out some opportunities along the way for yourself that might be unique? Because every pullback, every recession, and certainly every depression has winners and losers and you want to be on the winner's side when it comes to finding new opportunities.

Ryan: (07:13) I know for me personally, facts over feelings has kind of been my battle cry this whole time of like, I may feel uncomfortable, I may feel like I don't like what's going on, I may feel like maybe deals aren't going to get done, but the facts are, last week we had three deals close. We've got a new deal under contract, we sold it that same week. So, while I feel uncertain and I feel like things are different, I have to look at the facts and in the same way I may feel anxious about, are my residents going to pay me next month? Are they going to look at like, well, this is free lunch. But it doesn't benefit me at all to dive into the worst-case scenarios. Obviously, have a contingency plan, but if you're curling up in a ball, just like, what if nobody pays me? What if nobody pays me? That's not going to benefit you. And you need to look at the facts of what is your resident pool comprised of. I mean, I know with us in Indianapolis, we definitely have people that this is affecting, but I also know we have other people that this is affecting in a good way. We have Amazon workers that are getting time and a half and all kinds of stuff like that. So, facts over feelings is really kind of been my big motto the past few weeks.

Amanda: (08:35) Right. I mean because it does feel a little bit like the world stopped, but it hasn't really. A lot of people are still working. We were mid refinance in a couple of different markets. Those are still moving forward. I talked to one of our bankers in Oregon last week and I said, are you guys lending? And he said, yeah, we're always looking to lend to qualified borrowers. And so, we have things that are still moving forward. Now, we've had a few things that have spun out greatly. Unfortunately, at a very large package and one of our markets we'd already paid for all the appraisals, were out a significant amount of money and they're not moving forward with that refinance. So …

Bill: (09:24) They would add significantly inferior terms to what they originally…

Ryan: (09:28) Isn’t that funny? It was supposed to close the deal but it's going to hurt a lot more than it was supposed to.

Amanda: (09:35) The letter of intent that we signed to initiate before we wired tens of thousands of dollars reflect different terms than they're currently offering. So, we're just going to have to ride it out and see where we're at in three to six months with this portfolio. And hopefully their terms have changed. There's a lot of it that it's like you were talking about. You kind of just taking it day by day doing that sort of thing. A lot of that taking it day by day has allowed me to or has kind of made it so that I can't think the big picture because I won't let myself go there. But we just over the weekend learned were extended through April 30 on our social distancing order, which we all knew was coming down the line. So, all of a sudden, it's like, okay, we're for sure one more month out. We can take it day by day all we can, but we also have to plan for that next month and then figure out. Just that doesn't mean that April 30th business as usual.

Ryan: (10:35) It's like you're grounded and you ask if you can get out and your parents say not yet. It's like, aw, got it.

Andrew: (10:43) I think with regards to these issues, Dale Carnegie has some good advice in his book on how to stop worrying and start living as just like take the worst case scenarios. What happens and what do you do then? And so, banks have gotten a little bit stingier, a little pickier, but they're still lending. Interest rates, the FED said it's right now at 0%. So, rates were at historic lows or near historic lows before that, they're getting and even with the increased uncertainty, they should stay around there even though banks are pickier. So, there's the option, refinancing is certainly an option. There is the SBA economic disaster loans for small businesses. Real estate investors are small businesses. This brief recap of the terms, the up to 2,000,000. [11:29 Inaudible] 3.3% and 3.75%. And the first 12 months can be deferred. That's just kind of a brief rundown of them. So that's something you could look into as well. Selling could be a bit more challenging in this market if you need to raise funds, but there are also people who have fled the stock market and some of them want to keep their money on the sidelines for the time being. Others are more interested in alternative investments that private lenders might be an option. So just look down what are the worst-case scenarios and what are you going to do if that happens.

Amanda: (11:58) Specifically in our market or I mean in our business, three private lenders reached out to me last week looking for loans, so they are still wanting to make loans with us.

Bill: (12:09) Can I suggest that those who are listening to us go ahead and think about your absolute worst case scenario so you can just deal with it. Let me tell you what I think my and our worst-case scenario is in Eugene. And that is if they decide not to have college football start in the fall or the NFL and that consequently or alongside of that, that the Universities don't start up again in the fall. So, we rent, 70% of our properties are just students, probably maybe more. And if that didn't happen, of which many of them are pre-leased already, but if that didn't happen, we would be in a heap of trouble. So, I've kind of faced that as our worst-case scenario that this would just turn our business upside down. We would have to do all kinds of things we never envisioned as a result of that.

(13:06) I would encourage you to just stare at worst case scenario in the face and say, okay, as a result, are you not going to be able to have a warm place to lay your head down? Are you not going to be able to eat or you're not going to be able to tell your wife, your husband, your children “I love you”? Probably not. We are in such better shape if you think about it, then so much of the world. Through reading something about the situation in Iraq right now, which is just awful and there's many other places that reflect that in our world. I'm not saying that to discount anybody's pain here or depression or any of that kind of thing. It's real for sure, but face the worst-case scenario right in the face and say, would this really bring me down or is there a way through this? It might be really uncomfortable, but is there a way to deal with this? I think there is.

Ryan: (13:57) Tim Ferriss calls that fear setting. It's basically just asking, “And then what? And then what? And then what?” and kind of following out the train of logic. One thing I will mention that we've seen, and this is just from talking to a lot of high-level investors that are doing a lot of volume, particularly on the “buy and sell” side, so wholesalers, flippers, that kind of stuff. Deals just feel different. It's kind of like awkward and kind of clunky and kind of like, “Well, are you still buying?” Like everybody's trying to feel everybody out on everything. Even with our title company, when Indiana went to like nonessential businesses, they were like, “Well, we're not going to do like, we don't let people in the office anymore. We'll come out to your car window with the paperwork”. And it's kind of like, that's really weird. This is really different. But one thing I think I will say, Bill, you mentioned there's going to be people that come out on the winning side of this and on the losing side of it. I would say now more than ever those that are going to come out on the winning side of it are those who are acting proactively, who are looking at their businesses, looking at the models, figuring out how to tweak them. There are all kinds of stuff we've never even considered before that we're looking at in Indianapolis from different exit strategies to different marketing pieces to different acquisitions of just how can we pivot when we need to. And I think if you kind of sit back on your haunches a little bit and like well, let's just kind of see what happens. Even on a personal level, I was like, look, I've got to start reading some stuff. I have to start educating myself more because I'm just sitting here wasting time. I watched Tiger King in like a day.

Andrew: (15:43) [Inaudible] say that in the last two days.

Ryan: (15:47) I was like all right, I need to do something better with my time.

Amanda: (15:47) My husband watched it and then started watching it again.

Ryan: (15:53) So, that being said though, I think that gap we're going to see increase is going to be between those who take this time and use it proactively versus those who, it's kind of like, are you going to take the bull by the horns? Or are you just going to kind of wait and see what happens?

Amanda: (16:11) Well, unlike you brought up a good point of it is sometimes, it can be uncomfortable to think about doing something different because in your mind it's like this is how we do things. Well, this is how we do things could have ended two weeks or three weeks ago. So now you've got to figure out, okay, this is the new way that we do things because we are ever evolving. We have to be. We're changing with the times.


Bill: (16:37) Yeah. And everybody is facing the same thing. Not necessarily financially, but there's going to be a lot of understanding out there of people not being able to pay mortgages or rents and so forth. And we just need to be understanding towards each other. Now this is not an opportunity to get out of obligations that you can meet, but it is an understanding that there might be obligations that you can't meet and you're just going to have to talk with people who you have those obligations to. And again, we've talked about this before, but I'd say communication and sooner rather than later, if you have a lender, you can't meet that obligation or as a rent that can't come in, those conversations should happen as hard as they are. You've got to put one foot before the other and start doing that.

Ryan: (17:30) On that note, as a landlord though, or a property owner, we don't really like the term landlord. Now is not a time to be soft either. And what I mean by that is like somebody reaches out and they're like, hey, I can't pay rent due to like Covid. One of the guys in my group was like, yeah, I had somebody reach out. I have four working adults in a household who all worked for Amazon. They were like, yeah due to Covid, we're not going to be able to pay rent. And he was like, and I had to call him out on it like okay cool, I need a letter from Amazon stating that you've been laid off due to Covid and Covid only and then we can talk. And it was like crickets, right? He's like, these are people that are late every month that are looking to “seize the day”. And it's like they don't, they're not. So, that being said, trust but verify right now.

Amanda: (18:15) I have another question because I have sort of heard of a whole movement and people are encouraging it. A lot of mortgage lenders are offering deferments and that sort of thing. And the tone in the market, I mean that I am hearing people is if people are offering you grace, take it. And I'm not necessarily of that opinion. If you can afford to make your mortgage payments, I feel like you should make your mortgage payments. Just like if you could afford to pay your rent, you should pay your rent. I mean what's the other side of that thinking because maybe my side is very one sided.

Ryan: (18:53) I mean I think of it the same way you do of am I going to be somebody who's helping keep the economy going or am I going to be somebody who's taking advantage? And I mean the way I look at it, if I'm in a position that I don't need that help, I'm not going to ask for it. But at the same time if I am in a position where I need it, I am going to ask for it. And there may be certain places in your life or in your business that you need to do that. Maybe you have a loan with a hard money lender on a flip that's not selling, that you need to have a hard conversation with, but you can still pay your mortgage. So that's kind of how I'm looking at it.

Bill: (19:32) I remember back in the great recession, we had a fairly expensive property and there was some new private lenders on there. And actually, there were two different instances, and I asked these two individuals for two different properties, if they would consider taking less than the amount that we owed them…

Amanda: (19:53) For interest, not less of less of their principle.

Bill: (19:56) For interest, yes. For interest. And one of them said yes. And one of them said no. The one that said no, actually never loan to us again. The one that said yes, interestingly enough, kept lending to us again. So, it's hard to see where these things might land or end up. But I think having that conversation if necessary, it makes a lot of sense and I would do it again earlier rather than later if that's to be. So, I would agree with Ryan and Amanda. If you don't need those conversations, certainly you don't want to take advantage of the people…

Ryan: (20:33) Leave it for the folks who do.

Bill: (20:35) Yeah, for sure.

Ryan: (20:36) In the same way, I mean, I kind of look at if you can afford to support your local small businesses that you were supporting before, who you enjoy eating from or whatever, do your best to kind of keep things moving for those folks at a certain level. It's not your job to keep them afloat but if you need to go out to eat and or if you need to order in and that's somewhere you normally get food from, maybe you do take home.

(21:00) So, shifting gears a little bit, let's talk about pricing, and kind of what you guys are seeing and kind of thinking. I'll start with my thoughts and then I'm kind of the baby here as far as real estate markets go. So, you guys can correct me if I'm wrong.

(21:19) First thing obviously that happens in a recession is banks start to tighten up, right? So, that would make me believe that if I was a fix and flipper right now, I would want to be focusing on a product that is typically going to be purchased by folks that are still going to meet that criteria. I think from what I saw FHA is at a 680-credit score or higher now. Jumbo loans are 720 credit score or higher now. So, I think if I was a fix and flipper, I would want to focus on that, those sorts of assets. So, I may be focused less on like really low end blue collary stuff and I may be focusing more on like really solid vinyl village stuff. Or maybe not a first-time home buyer neighborhood, but a second time home buyer neighborhood. Like in Indianapolis first time home buyers are 100-120-150 in there. Second time home buyer though 150-200 somewhere in there. What are your guys' thoughts on that?

Amanda: (22:23) I mean I agree with that. Especially I have a mortgage broker friend who had discussed that some of those investor-backed loans are on hold a little bit right now just because of some of the deferments that are being offered. And so, there aren't any servicers that are wanting to come in and buy the loans from once they're originated because the services are still on the hook for making full payments to the investor even if deferments are offered from the servicer to the mortgage holder. So, like some of those products, if you were counting on that FHA homebuyer or something like that, which is oftentimes going to be a first-time homebuyer, might be harder to close those loans.

Ryan: (23:09) Let's say hypothetically I'm a flipper and I have multiple offers. How am I determining which one is most likely to close right now? I'm assuming it's not FHA. Is this like 5% down conventional? Is there more due diligence it should be done?

Amanda: (23:22) I would say right now probably your strongest buyer's going to be that person who has the cash down payment that isn't looking for a conventional home buyer with a 20% cash down situation. So, when you're sifting through, you're going to want to give priority to those or obviously cash buyers. But does anybody have that many cash buyers buying in the retail market? I mean, I suppose, but I mean that's what I would be. That's what I would be targeting to.

Andrew: (15:43) CNBC report a little while ago that home sales might fall as much as 35% year over year, about 2 million less sales this year than last year and annualized, for at least, for April. Flipping is something I'd be pretty careful with in general right now. If you're looking to buy to flip, now of course if you're going to have a whole process of flipping a house, could take a couple of months, things might change a little bit, but I'd be a little bit more careful with large capital projects that require you selling the property right now. Stuff where like getting a great deal, where you can hold it, that might make more sense or wholesaling where you're not taking the property into your own possession or not taking it very long if you're going to get it under contract and sell very quickly.

(24:43) Those would be more appealing to me in this environment than a large capital project where you require selling the property at the end in an uncertain market where home sales are certain to go down and could go down substantially for who knows? I mean it seems like economists are becoming less and less optimistic about a V shaped recovery. It'll probably be a slow wind up after this. My general recommendation, if you have a flip, that's one thing, but try to stay away from those little bit more so to move more towards wholesales or holds that you're going to hold for a very long time and this recession will eventually end.

Ryan: (25:23) Or if you're going to do flips, maybe smaller projects, maybe now is not the time to rebuild something in a historic neighborhood. Probably not.

Bill: (25:32) What's your exit strategy? Do you have more than one kind of thing? And I would say, can you do “buy and hold”? Can you rent this property? And if so, can you basically make it work cashflow wise if you have to rent it? We're currently in a deal right now that we bought. I think we bought a fairly good price at 210. We thought it could sell after we put in about 25 for the low end 285, and maybe more, probably closer to 300. But right now, I'm kind of reevaluating that. We kind of have to make a decision this week. The seller has already said they'll take $10,000 off of that. So that's 5% essentially of the price. Is that good enough when you look at what Andrew is saying? Now our market has been, this is Eugene, Oregon, super tight. So, it's going to continue to be somewhat tight because there's just not very much supply in the market. But you've got to make those judgment calls and this certainly is a property that we can rent, which we often do keep these properties. Some we flip, some we keep. So, we do have a backup exit strategy here and I would really encourage that.

Ryan: (26:52) What do you guys think as far as like obviously this is going to affect different markets in different ways. Comically, my thinking on it has shifted a little bit. Initially I was like, hey, the markets that are really appreciated are going to really suffer, but at the same time a lot of those markets that are appreciated also have a lot of people that are working from home right now with zero problem. Whereas some of the more blue-collar markets and neighborhoods I think eventually struggle a little bit. But do you see us dropping back to like 2007-2008 pricing level? Do you see us going below that? I mean, I know so far, we've basically just been kind of cutting like 10% off the top and just kind of making sure we're getting really good deals and really good neighborhoods.

Amanda: (27:40) It’s so hard to guess that because this is just such a different thing. I mean a health pandemic has caused this like tightening of everything, whereas the last recession was caused by really bad lending practices that were not right. And so, we weren't there so, I don't know. That really is the unknown right there.

Ryan: (28:07) The million-dollar question.

Bill: (28:08) I kind of was there and I would say that it was really hard even then. Looking back, hey, that was an easy call to make that there was going to be a large roller coaster ride down and 2007-2008. But it wasn't that easy to make that. And we were still buying properties in that environment. We were flipping properties rather than holding them in general. But what that meant is that as long as the buyer pool doesn't freeze up because the lending pool freezes up, then I think there is still an avenue to sell properties. That's what we found so difficult then is that the buyers exited the market in general because they couldn't get a loan. You'd have to have two appraisals. In retrospect, oh, it's easy to figure that one out. I think in retrospect on this one, we'll know exactly when we should have grabbed that falling knife

Amanda: (29:04) So, here’s the question that three of us on this podcast we're not part of. But so, the dot-com recession that happened at the end of the 1990s and the early 2000s, you were a part of that. What happened with real estate at that moment?

Bill: (29:18) Well, that was pretty much a blip on there. That was mainly a stock thing and a lot of money from the stock market went into the real estate market from that one.

Andrew: (29:30) It was just an only recession on record where real estate prices continued to go up.

Amanda: (29:33) Right. Because I do feel that's kind of when you were able to buy a lot of your campus stuff though. I mean like when I look like that, those are a lot of your strongest purchasing years. It was like you'd kind of work your legs at that point.

Bill: (29:45) They were. Yeah. So, we don't know. I do think that there is so much uncertainty in this market and I do think it's going to be really hard to reignite the economy. Many jobs will be lost forever. These restaurant owners who were put it all together for their dream…

Ryan: (30:07) We had a few restaurants who just opened and it was like, alright…

Bill: (30:13) Yeah. Now, interestingly enough, we just had a person in California who's moving up to Oregon into Eugene in particular. They just bought a restaurant. They're going to be a…

Amanda: (30:24) But it was Figaro's take and bake, which is probably…

Bill: (30:27) That’s the point. There's winners and losers. So, they bought a take and bake pizza franchise, there’s a couple of them in town here. So, they're sitting pretty. I mean, what other business would you want to be in? And then somebody expects to come in, grab their pizza and leave kind of thing rather than dining in.

Ryan: (30:46) Pro-tip, that's totally unrelated. If you have a smoker and have never done a take and bake pizza on it, that will change your life. Check out, Figaro's in Eugene.

Bill: (31:00) Yeah, we want to support Figaro's by the way in Eugene.

Ryan: (31:02) We've got a local restaurant that we frequent pretty often. It's kind of like our spot, right? Like the owners know my wife and I on a first name basis. They give us cookies all the time, just as they'll clear out our check and like…

Amanda: (31:15) Which one of you is a Norm in the relationship between you and your wife? Maybe you don't even know what Cheers is.

Ryan: (31:22) That totally went over my head. I don't know what this is, I don't know what that is.

Bill: (31:26) That was a 90s thing.

Ryan: (31:28) I was born in 93. No, we were talking to the owners and we asked him, hey, how's this going for you? And the thing they were doing that was sweet is if there's kind of like this little restaurant strip by us and they were feeding any restaurant workers who were laid off for free. They come in and get a free meal once a day. Just like no questions asked. Super, super solid. They said till they had a guy come in and get seven rib-eyes for himself. And then they were like, okay, we're going to set some rules here.

Amanda: (32:00) Okay, questions are going to be asked.

Ryan: (32:02) Yeah, exactly. But the thing that was interesting that they were saying is like, as soon as this started to get popular, they started to shift more towards call in and take out and local delivery. And they said so far actually they'd been fine. It's still makes sense for them to keep doors open. People are still coming in, people are still ordering food. But again, I kind of throw that back to the investor analogy we've discussed is they pivoted quickly, which is why they've survived so far. And if you're hitting your head against a brick wall of like, well, it's always been this way. Like, well, I'm reading a book and one of the things they talk about is different lies and kind of the truth to it. And the lie was, well, I've always done it this way. Well, just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean that's going to work now. So, you may need to figure out how to buy a house without physically walking inside it. You may need to figure out how to sell a house to a cash buyer without them ever touring it. Now we do it all the time because we've got kind of that system dialed in and people trust the content, we're giving them. But you may have to start to pivot your regular guys if you're a wholesaler that buy from, you may not be your regulars anymore. You may need to find the landlords and the property management company owners and figure out, hey, who do they know that's still buying? I think now if anything is it time to get out of your comfort zone and kind of seclude yourself back into it.

Amanda: (33:34) Absolutely.

Ryan: (33:36) Which let's be real, that's not fun.

Bill: (33:38) Yeah. I think that's a good way to end this. Get out of your comfort zone. Well, I think maybe another way to put that is - Be proactive.

(33:47) So, we're trying to be proactive ourselves. We all are dealing with different markets and different issues and we know you are as well. So, we hope you join us again and please look us up at Again, subscribe and tell your friends about it. We're in this together and we're going to look for practical solutions all the way along the line. Have a good day and have a good week.