People are very, very passionate about the topic of who you should market to, who you should not market to, where you should buy lists and from what providers. In this episode, The Good Stewards get into what we're using that's working, what lists we've tested, and then kind of, where you should start and kind of some things you can add in to get there.
Easy to Niche Lists:
2:20: When you want to pull together niche lists including divorce, probate, pre-foreclosure, eviction, tax liens, back taxes, etc, avoid most list brokers for any of these kind of niche lists. Nine times out of 10, they're selling you old data that they've already sold to a thousand people.
4:20: The harder, more difficult lists can perform extremely well. But there are the easy lists for purchase out there where you can be ready to market in as little as 5 minutes.
7:00: The bulk of Ryan’s deals he’s gotten in Indianapolis have come from absentee owners with high equity, an “easy-hard” list. But when you’re marketing at scale, you’re always going to notice more deals coming from these bulk “easy-hard” lists of say 10000 absentee owners. All of this is because there's simply more data to go off of.
10:00: When you start marketing, be ready for the people who may be frustrated that you got their information. Or Ryan’s company CallPorter can simply do it for you.
Seniors With Equity:
11:23: The most lucrative list that sources the best deals is seniors with equity. They typically own a home that’s free and clear where in addition, the property value has gone up significantly all without updating it.
13:05: This list is all about building the relationship, rapport and following up. You must hold their hand through the process, they want to sell but they don’t know where they will go once the home is sold. They may also not know what to do with the money.
15:19: With these lists, if you ever feel like the senior is not all the way there and even forgetful, ask if they have a family member or lawyer you could loop in to these conversations.
Working with Others (Wholesalers):
18:10: Don’t put your business, your financial or retirement goals in the hands of others. Lot’s of real estate investors are waiting for wholesalers to bring them a deal. Don’t expect to get a deal at 75% of ARV from a wholesaler if there’s someone else out there willing to pay 80% of ARV. You’re not going to get any off market deals if you don’t get out there and get in front of people.
20:50: Know the priorities of your business. If you’re not willing to spend $2,500-$7,500 in marketing to source the deal yourself, you’re going to be paying a wholesaler a $15,000-$30,000+ markup. On 5 properties, you probably would much rather have $100k in equity.
22:47: Bottom line is that you should widen your funnel for finding deals, it’s going to be cheaper in the long run. You’re either going to pay up front to a wholesaler or real estate agent or source it yourself by doing your own leg work.
24:37: Ryan believes that most people mess up by either paying too much, not budgeting enough for rehab. But on the marketing side, find your niche and be consistent by targeting that one hard. If you jump around in 55 different directions, it’s rare to be able to market that successfully.
26:41: Another thing to note is that it takes awhile to get your pipeline flowing. Don’t think that you can just try marketing for 30 days and believe that will work. It could take 60, 90, 120 days to close a deal. Make sure you have the resources in place to keep your pipeline going. There’s power in momentum.
31:40: We’re not wholesale buyers usually because we have to have a margin to make this business model work.
32:10: If you’re actually out there looking for deals, you’re in the right environment, you’re “wearing the right gear” and prepared to show up to bat, you’re going to go a lot further than if you’re just kind of sitting on your hands hoping something falls in your lap.
10:55: Ryan Holiday’s, Ego is the Enemy.
10:28: CallPorter is a call service specifically for real estate investors.
Connect with the Good Stewards:
Ryan: So a lot of people, the lead comes in, they make the offer, they tell them no, they're discouraged. They move on to the next thing when really it's like that would have panned out. You just got to keep working it a little bit more.
[00:00:12] Intro: Welcome to the good stewards podcast, the only podcast dedicated to seasoned real estate investors who want to maximize the cashflow potential in their business. We are buy and hold investors with a thousand plus properties and markets across the U S. To bring an insider's view into the nitty gritty details of real estate investing. If you're looking to develop the mindset teams and systems that can dramatically build your real estate business and network, you're in the right place.
[00:00:46] Ryan: Welcome to this episode of the good stewards podcast. I'm Ryan Dossey.
[00:00:50] Amanda: I'm Amanda Perkins
[00:00:51] Bill: I'm Bill Syrios.
[00:00:52] Andrew: And I'm Andrew Syrios.
[00:00:53] Ryan: Today we're going to dive into what lists you should be using to find off market deals. Now, I'm really excited to cover this particular topic because, it's a, it's kind of a, it's almost like talking politics. People are very, very passionate with. Who you should market to, who you should not market to, where you should buy lists, what providers, all that good stuff. And we're going to hop into what we're using that's working, what we've tested, and then kind of, where you should start and kind of some things you can add in to get there.
[00:01:31] So the first thing I want to talk about is the different types of lists. Now I really break these up into two categories. We have what I call the easy lists, and we have the hard lists. Now, that's not like the amount of effort that's taken or needed to get the deal. That more has the amount of effort that goes into finding the particular list for things like seniors, absentee owners, pre-foreclosure, even owner occupants with equity, things like balloon mortgages. All that stuff is super easy to find and to pull. You can do it from a computer anywhere in the world. Takes just a couple of minutes. Now, hard lists, on the other hand, this is what actually requires some effort. Things like, finding divorce, probate, pre-foreclosure eviction, tax leans, back taxes.
[00:02:23] This isn't typically something that you can just buy from like a list broker. And actually my recommendation is to avoid most list brokers for any of these kind of niche lists, because nine times out of 10, they're selling you old data that they've already sold to a thousand people. And I've even had experiences where the data was just, quite frankly useless.
[00:02:42]so, you know, the big thing, the big kind of distinction between these is. Are you going to put in the work to build the hard lists, the niche list? A lot of people kind of talk a big game. I'm going to go direct to seller. I'm going to drive for dollars. That's a huge one, right? Literally just cruising every street in your market, writing down the addresses of ugly houses or using an application to do it.
[00:03:07]Andrew, Bill? Either have you guys ever driven for dollars.
[00:03:10] Andrew: Done it a little bit. We had, we've had people drive for dollars for us. We've done that some and, and just, and mailed to them directly and had a little bit of success. That was mostly when we were back when I was back in Oregon.
[00:03:22] Ryan: I love that you say, done a little bit. That's the point here.
[00:03:26] Bill: We have, through another person that I was involved with, driven every street, essentially in Eugene and Springfield. So we've got quite an extensive. You know, lists like this and it's, we've had some success and some not so success on it, but, it's a fairly extensive list that we have available to us.
[00:03:47] Ryan: So there you go. You got two different takes. A we did a little bit, which is my answer, right? I got out and drove some neighborhoods and then I realized like, this sucks. Like I value my time way more than this. And then you have the approach that like, really if you're an investor that's not just starting out. It's going to make more sense to go the Bill route, or even what Andrew kind of alluded to, which is hiring somebody to do it for you. So, you know, the perk with these easy lists is in five minutes you can have a list of people to begin prospecting to some of these hard lists. They take a little bit more work.
[00:04:20] Now, that being said, in my experience, some of the harder, more difficult lists to get can perform very, very, very, very well. you know, we've got a lot of people that we buy houses from, the, just an absentee owner wanting to kind of, a quick, easy transaction. And then, you know, as Amanda can attest to with some of their recent deals in Oregon, little different when you have somebody going through foreclosure or something like that.
[00:04:46] Amanda: Not such a willing participant. They want to be, but usually if they're in some, like in a foreclosure process, they're above being able to handle things, I guess is where I put that.
[00:04:59] Bill: You know, I see in that kind of list of folks that you have to deal with somewhat differently because, you know, there's the five stages of death and dying, which people go through when they have a terminal illness, which has been well documented. And all of us, when we have a loss of some kind of, could even be a loss of respect, a loss of a loss of a spouse, a loss of a financial stability. and that's what happens when a person is going through. a distress situation like foreclosure and the first stage of death and dying is denial. And that is a stage that can be tough to work through with a person.
[00:05:39] I was just talking with a person a couple of months ago who we could have helped. But she kept saying, well, we've got it covered. It's, we've got it figured out what we're going to do. And I could tell that that was just a, a lot of denial. And then I saw the foreclosure listing and it was sold at auction just to a week or so ago. So it's like, boy, working through some of those stages and there's denial, there's anger, there's, depression and there's bargaining. And then finally, acceptance. And that acceptance, doesn't necessarily, people don't necessarily get to that fifth stage. but I feel like as. As people, you know, seeking to build win-win transactions with those who are in distress situations. We need to help them work through those feelings and those issues as as well as possible for both of our sakes.
[00:06:34] Ryan: Yeah. That actually ties into our next point. super, super well. you know, I think the, the thing to be noted that I've seen, especially in situations where people are actually losing their home, is going to a tax auction, a foreclosure the IRS is taking, cause they have new paid taxes, whatever it is. These folks tend to like, if their auction date is for Friday. They're going to tell you to pound sand till Thursday night, then it's kind of like a, you waited too long, but like, there's not as much we can do here for you. So with these kind of easy, hard lists, you know, the bulk majority of the deals we've gotten in Indianapolis have come from absentee owners with high equity.
[00:07:16]what we do with marketing really helps us stand out in that niche. But, you know, we have, I think the reason being is simply just sample size, right? my niche lists, I can maybe pull 300 new people a week. I don't get me wrong. Those are great lists. We market to them, we get deals off them all the time, but with absentee owners, we decided to pull 10,000 people this week and you know, took a, took a credit card and five minutes, and we have this giant list of prospect too.
[00:07:42] So. you're always, if you're marketing at scale, you're always going to probably notice more deals coming from kind of these bulk easy lists just because there's more data to go off of. You know, if I had 10,000 people going through a rough financial situations, lifestyle changes, etcetera, I'm, you know, obviously that would be the direction I would go. but, you know, fortunately, only so many people lose their house. So many, so many people go through divorce, etcetera. So that leads us into other niches. So absentee is our most consistent.
[00:08:13] Bill: That is a bit of a distressed market. Anybody who's absentee. Not in the state, not in the area, and yet they have a rental out there.
[00:08:23] It can at any moment go into distress because a, you know, a resident goes AWOL or a
[00:08:30] Ryan: property manager quits responding to calls
[00:08:33] Bill: as an HVAC, you know, a huge bill comes their way. And it's kind of like, I really want to wash my hands at this situation. And, I think probably we've all been there at one time at some, some level of just saying that that's enough. I don't want any more of this. And that's a good time to be, you know, the right mailing, going to the right person at the right time is obviously what we want to connect with here.
[00:08:58] Ryan: Yeah, I mean, the, I think the easiest deal I ever did was a absentee owner in Utah who texted back off of a marketing piece and said, you sent me a letter, here's the addresses, here's the price I'll sell them for. His asking price for two duplexes was what one duplex would sell for. So we were like, yeah, this is a no brainer. It's also in like a super trendy kind of hip neighborhood, and there's like. I think it's North of 500 million getting invested by a couple of corporations and it kind of redeveloping this area. So we were like, yeah, we'll take these. literally texted him back, okay, done deal. What's your email? Send over his email, send over the contract, signed the contract. Never even talked to the guy on the phone. Now that being said, that is not really, that's like, I mean, every once in a while, but like, if that's what you're looking for, good luck. You know, most of our deals, you know, tell us where to go stick it and, and a much less kind way, and then come back a month or so later and they're like, Hey, you know, is that offer still on the table? Or we're reaching back out to them saying, Hey, we're still interested.
[00:10:00] Bill: You gotta be ready for that cause a lot of people are gonna say where'd you get my name? Oh, you know, where'd you get this information? And they're not going to be necessarily happy about it, but it's just part of the, part of the business model that, okay, let me take you off the list and be polite, courteous about it and you know, take them off the list.
[00:10:21] Ryan: Or a shameless plug. You hire an answering service that does it for you. So, on our next.
[00:10:26] Bill: What would that answering service be Ryan?
[00:10:28] Ryan: That'd be callporter.com. All right. C A L L P O R T E R.com. All right. On that note.
[00:10:36] Andrew: Why don't you read some testimonials real quick for it.
[00:10:39] Ryan: I mean, I can, I mean, we've been featured in Forbes, entrepreneur.
[00:10:44] I mean, yeah, I think we are listed as the number three tool entrepreneurs need to know about for real estate investing by Forbes. You know, no big deal.
[00:10:52] Andrew: Yeah. It's moved past shameless.
[00:10:55] Ryan: So humble. I'm currently reading ego's the enemy. Probably not a bad idea for any real estate investor. I can't say I've met very many, with the exception of probably Bill that are super humble.
[00:11:08]Bill: well, I'm actually reading that book, Ryan's recommendation myself. And that is a, that is a worthwhile book. Ego is the Enemy.
[00:11:16]Ryan: By Ryan Holiday. For anyone watching Amanda's face, to me, calling Bill humble, is the only feedback you needed.
[00:11:23] All right, so next, probably the most lucrative list is seniors with equity. Now. I want to preface this, because they tend to sell and give the best deals. Reason being most seniors buy their home, take good care of it, live in it for a long time, but they don't really update anything. my favorites when we get a call on a senior on property and they're like, Oh yeah, I was just recently updated, back in 83 and it's like, your bathtub is still pink. This is not updated. you know, you still have like the glow in the dark blue wall tiles not up to kind of modern standards. So the reason being, they typically own a home that's free and clear or close to it. A lot of the time that's gone up in value. They've paid it off, but they haven't done anything. So they have a pretty good motivation to sell at a decent discount.
[00:12:16] my brother just actually bought one of these as a owner occupant property and got about a $30,000 discount off of retail. And the whole reason being the guy was like, look man, we've got 12 colors of carpet in here. I know it's not updated, right? Like, you know, different things. Now, the problem with seniors is you're not going to really have any do that absentee owner thing that I mentioned of, Oh, you know, here's the house, here's my asking price. Great, take it, awesome, I'll be out in two weeks. The problem with most seniors is this is all about the chase.
[00:12:48]Amanda: And the building of a relationship, because this is of a generation that relationships matter.
[00:12:53] Ryan: Absolutely. I think in Oregon, they call it porch time, if I'm not mistaken. you know, these
[00:12:57] Amanda: That sounds like something from the south.
[00:13:03] Ryan: I mean, I know people that would disagree with you guys, but that's fine. We'll move on. So, it's all about building that relationship, building the rapport, and then also really walking them through the process. A lot of the times they're interested in selling, but they don't know where they're going to go. They don't know how they're going to get there. Don't know what they're going to do with the money. They don't really know what they want. A lot of the times it's more of a the home is starting to become a minor inconvenience. Hey, I can't do the stairs like I used to be able to do, or the home is too big for me to maintain. Or a lot of the times we get like a widowed spouse and, Hey, it's just me here. You know, I should probably just move to an apartment or something, or a retirement community. I don't need something that's big. Right. so seniors, historically from every investor I've talked to will give you the biggest discounts, the best deals. But this is not for the faint of heart.
[00:13:54] There's going to be a lot of follow up. There's going to be a lot of relationship building. There's going to be a lot of handholding. we bought one recently that like took several months to even get to a deal. Then when we closed, she was like, awesome. I'm moving into this particular community. And then like three days before closing, she was like, Hey, so they don't have any where I can go for like a month. So, fortunately we had a vacant that we were able to place her into for the 30 days. A lot of people wouldn't have that option. So you'd then have to re push out, closing, do all that good stuff. so, you know, kind of key takeaway here, while seniors are typically the most lucrative deals, they're not the easiest. It's how I take a lot of legwork, a lot of follow up, and a decent amount of time to pan out.
[00:14:38] Bill: And there's also the family that's often behind them because it could be an inheritance, potentially, money. The money would go to, folks that would inherit that money from these seniors. We've also seen, I've seen a few times, a couple of times that I can remember specifically that. The seniors wanted to get rid of the property because they had moved their son or daughter or their friends into it, and they didn't want to say, I don't want you to be my renter anymore, because they probably weren't paying rent anyway. And so this was an easy way for them to unload the property, saying it's going to be sold. So just managing all those relationships can be challenging like you're talking about Ryan.
[00:15:19] Ryan: Yeah, I mean, I will say just kind of one caveat with seniors. if you're ever in a situation where you think somebody is even remotely, not all the way there, like little spacey, little forgetful, you call them and they don't remember who you are. You know, something just even remotely feels off. That's when you want to ask questions like, Hey. You know, you have a son or daughter that we can bring into this conversation. do you have a lawyer that you typically work with that we can bring into this situation? Bill and I bought an entire portfolio from a gal, with dementia and we had to be extremely careful with our contracts, with how we made our offers with looping in legal counsel, family, kids.
[00:15:59] And it does make it much more of a bear. But the last thing you want is to have somebody call you. You buy their house and then the family comes back later and says, you know, Hey, they were mentally incompetent. I mean, that's a really good way to end up on the five o'clock news. So you know, that being said, if you even kind of get the hint of something, maybe a miss here, it's always better to act without a hint of impropriety than try to just get the deal done.
[00:16:25] Amanda: It's always good as part of that race relationship building, just to kind of figure out what their family situation is, because. You know, you don't want them to feel like they did this decision without bringing their family into it because their family's gonna, you know, be suspicious because there are a lot of people out there try to take advantage.
[00:16:43] Ryan: Yeah. You can also run into the, you know, deals under contract, headed to closing, and you get a phone call from the son who wants to know why he wasn't brought in. Or Hey, you're trying to pull a fast one here. And it can be pretty challenging when you have multiple parties involved. It's hard enough to sell one person on taking the offers, you know, that we make and why we need to be there. It's a little bit different to sell like three generations of the Joneses on why they should sell to you at a discount for cash. Right. So we've ran into before where like the entire family's on board, but there's like one relative who's like, Oh no, there's a lot you have is worth $5 million. And it's like, ah, no, there's, there's no way.
[00:17:23] We had a triplex Bill and I bought that. We ended up buying for about 50K and one of the relatives was from Southern California. Didn't understand that So Cal and Indianapolis have a little bit different pricing and she was like, Oh, you know, no, no, no, you can't take 50,000 this is, this is worth minimum 600K and we had to like. Under no circumstances is that real. And the person was like, well, what is bulldoze it and sell, sell the land for a couple of hundred grand. And it was like, this is rural Indian, that is not an option.
[00:17:56] Amanda: There's alot of land available.
[00:17:57] Ryan: Like, like, trust me, if I could take every property I own and move it to So Cal, I would in a heartbeat. Right? That'd be great. That's not really an option though. You've got to be realistic for the market. So, just be prepared to roll with the punches on that. Kind of, the last thing I want to talk about, is kind of the elephant in the room with this, right? We're talking about lists. You're starting to kind of get the wheels turning of maybe the niche you want to operate in, but you're not gonna get anything if you don't try. Like, I can't state this enough. So many real estate investors, their entire business, their entire portfolio, their financial goals, their retirement, they're placing in the hands of other people, right? They're waiting for wholesalers to bring them a deal. you know, newsflash is somebody who wholesales, I'm not gonna sell you a deal at 75% of ARV cause somebody else is going to pay me 80 and I wouldn't pay 80 to keep that deal. Right. So if you're looking for good BRRRR deals, you're going to either have to find them yourself or really work your relationships.
[00:18:57] But I'm, I'm a huge fan of not waiting on brokers, hoping for foreclosures, scouring the MLS to get into bidding wars. I'd much rather just build relationships with people and monetize them right. So you're not going to get any off market deals. You're not gonna find any deals if you don't get out there and try. you know, there's a lot of areas of real estate investing where it's like, know your data. Know how this works, you know, do your due diligence. Make sure you understand rehab costs. Make sure you have good contractors before you dive in. Once you kind of have those, those boxes lined up and you're ready to start looking for deals. This is the part where you've got to jump in. You really can't like analysis paralysis on lists of like, Oh, you know, geez, should I do 35% equity or 37% equity? Doesn't really matter. The important thing is to get out there, you know, get in front of people.
[00:19:50] We primarily use direct mail and online simply because it's not a gray area at all. There's things like, you know, cold calling, text messaging, and there's other things you can do to get in front of people. Whatever method you decide to pick and whatever kind of your rationale behind that is just do it and be consistent with it. last thing I have, and then I'll, I'll hop off my soapbox here. This is not as cheap as you probably think it is. I've talked to a lot of people and explained to look. Our average cost per acquisition is about 2,500 bucks, meaning we have to invest $2,500 to get people to into our system. To turn a deal out of it and we're really, really good at this.
[00:20:29] Andrew: That doesn't include your time. Yeah.
[00:20:30] Ryan: There's places.
[00:20:31] Andrew: Well your staff's time
[00:20:32] Ryan: Oh yeah. Well, not my time. I've got staff who do that, but, but in the beginning, you know, it doesn't include my time either. But a lot of investors spend between 5,000 to 7,500 bucks to get a single off market deal. Now, a lot of people are like, geez, that's nuts. Here's the flip side though.
[00:20:50] A lot of wholesalers are making well north of $30,000 selling your properties. my average is over 15 grant, so, you know, if you're not wanting to invest $3,000-$5,000 to get a deal at 75% minus repairs, minus holding costs. You're going to pay quite a bit more on the markup that a wholesaler or somebody else's charging you.
[00:21:17] I think the most like ridiculous example that I have of this. I was looking at a deal and we, it was one of those, like, it was super thin, like the wholesaler pretty much sucked all the meat out of it. which never happens. and, we were kind of like, okay, this is the number that works for us. And he was like, yeah, you know, I could, maybe I can maybe do that. Let me send you the assignment agreement. And, I mean, this guy was like, if you're going to wholesale, you know, treat your buyers like customers, treat them with respect. This guy was like, Oh, you can submit an offer and you may earn the privilege of buying this deal for me.
[00:21:50] And it was like, I hope you fall in a well, right? Comically, there actually was a, a well on the property. so that's fitting. but this particular guy shoots over the assignment agreement. He got this thing for 35 grand. And was trying to stick us with a $55,000 assignment. Now my issue isn't with paying a large assignment, my issue is honestly with the fact that he screwed somebody over to get that deal.
[00:22:14] This was like a move in ready to retail house. so. Senior with potentially some health issues, is, is a possibility. so, you know, would you rather invest $3,000 to $5,000 to find deals in your own market that you control or be at the mercy of other people? Don't get me wrong. you know, I've bought about 8% of my portfolio has come from wholesalers and MLS listed properties. I'd much rather be at the 140 plus units we're at right now, then be at like 12.
[00:22:47] Bill: And I think that, if you're not finding the deals coming your way, it's all about widening the funnel and looking anywhere and everywhere, turning over rocks, but as much as possible, going direct to, to seller marketing. And I think what the bottom line of what Ryan is saying, it's cheaper in the long run because you're going to either pay up front, less. or you going to pay a wholesaler or a through a real estate agent or a, you know, a market deal that anybody could get a whole lot more than if you were to pay that upfront and direct direct marketing. So, but open the funnel wide open. Just look everywhere. Throw your business cards around, talk to people, tell them that what you do. Go to REIA meetings, you know, on and on and on. That's the way you find deals is just opening up your funnel and making it as wide as possible.
[00:23:41] Ryan: Yeah. I mean, we won't, we won't lie to you guys. Like, this is not, this is not a cakewalk. She says, not for the faint of heart. honestly, nothing worth having though, has ever come to me easy. And, and I think everybody on this call can agree with that. Like if you're looking for like the easy option. Maybe you should check out turnkey investing. You know, you're not really going to have much equity and your cashflow is going to kind of suck. But if you want the easy button, there you go. you know, so whether it's in networking relationships. I'm a big fan of going direct to seller cause I like to control my own inventory. This is hard work. you know, we call acquisitions first base out of four, and you know, I would honestly argue that acquisitions and construction are probably the hardest pieces to this. Acquisitions, it's all about finding the deal and negotiating the deal, following up with it, getting it under contract, and getting them to closing.
[00:24:37] And that's where most people I think mess up. They pay too much. They don't budget enough for rehab or on the construction side, they end up kind of going over. so you know, when you're out there kind of looking for your niche, your best niche is going to be the one you're consistent with. Right? So whether that's driving for dollars, whether that's going to the courthouse and pulling public records, whether that's, you know, trolling obituaries, you know, absentee owners, seniors, whatever you pick, be consistent with it. most people that I talk to who have failed at direct to seller marketing. They hopped around in 55 different directions. They didn't pick one thing. They didn't get consistent. Right. you know, it's, it's pretty rare that you can market and 12 different ways to 15 different lists and have that go well for you. you know, real estate investing, there's a lot of like shiny objects.
[00:25:34] I would say lists are pretty high up on that of like, Oh, you know, I've got this thing called, called pre-pro probate, you know? Yeah. It's like sick dying people, like whatever it is, right? Chances are like, there's not some super secret niche list where people are just gonna like. there's no list of like the guy who texted me and said, Hey, have my half my properties at half of what they're worth. You just got to get out there, get in front of people and make offers on everything.
[00:26:04] Bill: Do a lot of follow up too wouldn't you say?
[00:26:07] Ryan: Yeah, I think that's a, how we follow up with leads is probably a totally different podcast cause that's a, that's a pretty big topic in and of itself. Amanda on the, you know, as kind of more of the CFO side, the side that you handle, What would you say are the things people need to look out with when it comes to the marketing piece? I know with us early on, we had to make sure that we were tagging marketing expenses back to the projects so that the accounting piece was done on that. But what would you say are kind of the big things you've seen come up?
[00:26:41] Amanda: This isn't exactly us, but it is us. and I think the real thing is it takes a while to get your pipeline flowing so. You can't just think, I'm going to commit to this for 30 days and, that's gonna work because it could take you 60 days to close a deal. And it could, in some cases, take people 90 days or 120 days after they get a piece of marketing from you to even reach out. And so you have to make sure that you have the resources in place to keep it going for a while and then continue to keep it going. And once the pipeline opens, it's not a one and done situation, so you need to budget appropriately for that. It's not free. There is nothing in life is free. So this is another, you know, you have to spend money to make money.
[00:27:31] Ryan: But I saw a webinar.
[00:27:34] Amanda: Right.
[00:27:35] Ryan: I think Amanda does make a great point that I'll kind of touch on real quick and then kind of just pass back to Andrew for his, his thoughts as we wrap up here. you know, it is something, this does cost money and it does take time and a lot of the times from the time somebody calls in. You know, we've spoken with them, we've gone out and met with the person, we've made them an offer. We've got deals that I would say our average is North of 30 days. Right? So a lot of people, the lead comes in, they make the offer, they tell them no, they're discouraged. They move on to the next thing. When really it's like. That would have panned out. You just got to keep working it a little bit more. So, you know, occasionally we'll have a deal, like we got one on Monday. That person called in, made them an offer. They took it from the time they called in to it was under contract, it was four days. Right. That's not the norm.
[00:28:22] A lot of the times they call in, there's back and forth over a week or two to actually get out to meet with them, to look at the property. Then there's making them an offer. Then they're thinking about it. And by the time you're even really headed to contract on that thing, you could be 30, 45, 60, 90 days out. we, had a duplex that reached back out to us a year after when we'd initially talked to him. So, you gotta be in this for the long game. You know, if you're. Oh, I'm going to commit to this for 30 days. See ya. Right. Real estate investing as a pretty high washout rate. If that's your attitude, unfortunately you're going to be one of them.
[00:28:56]Andrew, you know, I know you guys primarily bought from the auction, but as, as somebody who's now getting back into the direct to seller piece, what are, what are kind of your thoughts on this?
[00:29:10] Andrew: I mean, yeah, I think, I think you've put it on the head pretty pretty well. We were buying mostly REOs, so it was a lot of analysis and just kind of scatter shot, shotgun make, make, you know, this is what the property we think is worth. We'll make an offer based on that and just go one after the next to the next and the next. With a, with these types of lists. It is about building a relationship slowly and it takes some time. I remember when, back when we were doing it in Oregon, yeah, I could take, I mean some of them were quick, but often it would take months before and very slowly, like they were like, no, and then they come back and this kind of back and forth. Rather, we call it coming back to Pawpaw or something like that.
[00:29:43] Ryan: So I can't use porch time, but you get to call yourself Papa.
[00:29:47] Andrew: My dad said that, and I didn't say that, but yeah, it was a, yeah. I think patience is one of the, I mean it's kind of similar with just the BRRRR strategy in general. I mean, the goal is to refinance out 100% of what you have into it, but you do need to have some resources there in case it doesn't appraise very well, or, or you miss or you go over on rehab. So you can't just go into it like, this is not a no money type of thing. no matter how many, how much the gurus say it is, there is some money involved. And so you do have...
[00:30:18] Ryan: It doesn't have to be yours.
[00:30:19] Andrew: Yeah it doesn't have to be yours.
[00:30:21] Ryan: But if you're doing this with absolutely nothing in reserves, yeah, good luck.
[00:30:26] Andrew: Good luck. I mean, it technically is possible, so a lot of luck will be required.
[00:30:30]Ryan: If the stars align in your favor, nothing changes with the economy, and you're perfect 100% of the time, you may be okay. Alright Bill, you've, you've been in the direct to seller deal finding. Lifestyle for longer than I've been alive, so we'll pass to you to close out.
[00:30:48] Bill: One of the things that a, a book I read a long time ago said that the deal of the decade comes along every few weeks. And I think that can be true. It just takes, not luck, but work. I mean, we make our own luck by how hard we work is what it boils down to. And once in a while you just find, Oh my gosh, this deal is just incredible. Like the duplex duplexes in Utah. You had mentioned earlier, Ryan, but those kind of deals come by, that kind of luck comes by through diligent, disciplined, hard work and, you know, it's, it is fun work if this is what you want to pursue in life. And, it's a rewarding as well. And it's something that we're helping other people through these transactions too.
[00:31:40] We just have to have a margin and think of it as we're wholesale buyers. We're not retail buyers because we have to have a margin to make this business model work. But the deal of a decade comes by your, your purview every few months. You just have to be out there hunting them down.
[00:32:02] Ryan: Yeah. It's not going to come to you if you're not looking for it. Right? It's like, you know, if I decided to get into hunting, and that meant I sat on my back porch with a shotgun, you know, it's probably not. Now I'm in San Diego, so I would go to jail, but, you know what? I lived in the Midwest. Yeah, it's, it's pretty rare, whereas if you're actually out there looking for them, you're in the right environment, you're wearing the right gear, you're prepared, you know, you've shown up ready. you're going to go a lot further than if you're just kind of sitting on your hands hoping something falls in your lap.
[00:32:32] Really appreciate everyone tuning into this episode. If you like what you heard, remember to like and subscribe to the podcast. Make sure you snag our free, your free copy of our ebook, going to go to the goodstewards.com for more info, be sure to connect with us. Submit any questions or topics you'd like. To hear us talk about, and we really mean that. we were kind of joking before we started recording this episode that, I forget what it used to be in like the old newspapers, like the dear Judy columns, right? Like, my husband has been coming home late.
[00:33:05] Dear, dear Abby. There you go. We're like your dear Abby real estate investors, right. shoot us some questions. obviously we can't get to all of them, but would love to get to some of them and kind of fill in any gaps that you may have. I know when I was first starting out, I had a lot of kind of these small gaps that felt like really large gaps that were pretty easy to answer.
[00:33:25] So we're here for ya. until next time, we're the good stewards signing off. Talk to y'all soon.