The Good Stewards Real Estate Podcast

How We Got April Rents To Match February

Episode Summary

Our rent collection for April just about matched February numbers. Originally we had planned to see less than 10% shift, but because we got ahead of the crazy and reached out to our residents, gave them helpful information and made a couple of accommodations, we were all on the same page. Remember that most people still have jobs, most people can still pay their rent.

Episode Notes

Addressing Concerns and Disputes:

2:05: April was sort of the first month that we had to figure out if people were going to pay rent, what they are dealing with and how many of our residents are without jobs.

4:20: We basically said that rent is still due and to feel free to reach out if there is an issue. We didn’t want to extend an open invite, but we planned to give an additional payment plan allowance and waive April late fees.

7:29: With regard to student rentals, we had alot of calls since the University of Oregon closed their dorms and we had an insurgence of rental inquiries. At the same time, we had nervous people reaching out about cancelling leases for the 2020-2021 school year, which is a ways off still.

10:30: If you're struggling with vacancy issues or whatever you had to really think about lowering rents, trying to get on the front side of being as attractive as possible to any would-be residents coming your way.

This May Encourage Changes To Your Process:

11:49: We don't take people who've had evictions. So, we have a lot of people that I think are going to fight tooth and nail to not go the route of ending up with an eviction.

15:41: When you're talking to your residents about these situations, you really want to emphasize that both of your goals are the same for the person to stay in the property and not have them leave.

18:30: If you've been into real estate as a hobby or rental properties as a hobby, this is really time to change directions here. It’s not the time to be informal with your residents.

20:58: Remember, you've got a business on your hands. If every single property you own is free and clear, you still are operating a business. You need to keep that kind of mindset.

25:47: Part of being business owners too is you need to look into the future of who you're renting to. What’s the job outlook like for that industry?

What Are We Seeing In Our Communities?:

30:00: Most people are doing pretty well. They're down a bit, we're down a bit, but it's by no means a catastrophe. And it probably won't be in terms of rental income questions, unless this drags on for another couple of months.

32:40: I'm hoping for a lot of people that this is kind of not necessarily a wakeup call, but a chance to just kind of reassess what they want out of life and really go after that.

Connect with the Good Stewards:

Episode Transcription

Bill: (00:00) If you're struggling with vacancy issues or whatever you had to really think about lowering rents, trying to get on the front side of being attractive as possible to any would be a residents coming your way. I mean, you want good residents who have steady and secure jobs. That is the bottom line here. So, do what you can. Increase your marketing, make your places more attractive and lowering your rents is necessary.

INTRO: (00:30) Welcome to The Good Stewards podcast, the only podcast dedicated to seasoned real estate investors who want to maximize the cashflow potential in their business. We are “buy and hold” investors with a thousand plus properties and markets across the U.S. who bring an insider's view into the nitty gritty details of real estate investing. If you're looking to develop the mindset teams and systems that can dramatically build your real estate business and network, you're in the right place.

Ryan: (01:02) Welcome to this episode of The Good Stewards podcast. I'm Ryan Dossey.

Amanda: (01:06) I’m Amanda Perkins.

Bill: (01:08) I'm Bill Syrios.

Andrew: (01:09) And I'm Andrew Syrios.

Amanda: (01:10) Hello, Good Stewards. Today we want to talk to you a little bit about some of the ways that we are handling rent disputes and resident disputes in these times that we are dealing with. We are six days into the month of April and looking forward to May and just kind of thinking about how we're going to handle things moving forward. Before we dive in, we want to connect with you. Follow us at to subscribe to the podcast and get your free copy of the eBook. Like and share us. Send us questions, interact with us. We want to know what you've learned. We want to know what questions you have for us. Feel free to reach out to us.

(01:54) So, we are trying to get our feet under us, trying to figure out where we're going. I think the first thing we'd like to cover is just some of the ways that we've been interacting with our residents over the last few weeks. We are about of three weeks into this “stay at home” order that we have in Oregon. I think others might be under longer “stay at home” orders or southern place orders than us. And April was sort of the first month that we had to figure out, were people going to pay rent, what are they dealing with, how many of our residents are without jobs. The good news is that the government and the States have offered a lot of resources. There is money coming down the line apparently to all taxpayers that qualify as well as increased unemployment benefits.

(02:48) Things that help people that normally would be without jobs and having problems. Maybe self-employed people that in the past haven't been able to collect unemployment. Those kinds of people are now allowed to collect unemployment, which we feel like people would make rent a priority. But what we do have is a lot of uncertain residents reaching out to us and trying to make problems, not make problems, but sort of figure out the future. They're kind of doomsdaying down the line of “I'm without my job today. I need to cancel my lease. I need to get out of things” and sort of, how we're dealing with that. Andrew, Kansas City, have you guys had many people reach out to you at this point trying to get out of their leases?

Andrew: (03:33) We have not had many people reach out to us trying to get out of their leases. In fact, most of our rent, we're about 95% of what we were in March and most, I know Eugene is pretty close to that as well. We have one small branch Emporia, KS,, it's actually ahead. So, we're doing pretty well. I've heard pretty good signs across. I think it's different in the extremely hot, expensive markets from the early returns like San Francisco, New York, etc. That's rough for people who are paying 40%...

Ryan: (04:04) What do you mean you can’t pay your $9,000 rent?

Andrew: (04:05) Yeah, exactly. In the Midwest and the rest of our markets, because Eugene isn’t an inexpensive market. Eugene, Oregon, where you guys are located. But it's not a high expense market. So, we've had some people reach out to us about, they were worried they might not be able to make their payment or they knew they couldn't. We had a couple. So, a couple say they were worried they wouldn't be able to, they'd be laid off. We sent a letter as we talked about in a previous episode, we actually sent two emails. The first one was just company policies with regards to the homework, keeping the office shut down. We're doing everything remotely. Our maintenance guys need to be in separate rooms. The second one was reiterated those things. It can mention that April rent is still due, but also said reach out to us if there's an issue. We didn't try to highlight that because we didn't want everybody to do it, but we did want to mention it. Like reach out to us. And we had a couple people do so. We had a couple of people do this before but not a huge amount. And as we've seen so far, rental wise has been pretty good.

(05:09) But I mean the main thing we're looking to do is give people… Basically we usually have one payment plan per annual lease or per year. We're going to be giving a free rental, a free payment plan, an extra one, and also waive April late fees if they can show that their employment was affected by the coronavirus. We're in the midst of trying to talk to those people and whatnot. Especially since the $1,200 checks that the government is issuing or direct deposits have not been received yet. And so those will be gotten a little bit later. So, working with your residents in our opinion is a good idea here to drop those late fees for people who can show that they lost their job or had their hours cut back for coronavirus and then setting up a payment plan, especially once they get those rent checks.

(06:01) Now this might mean if this continues to drag that we actually have a much bigger problem in May and April actually wasn't a big problem. There are some exaggerations. The stereotype Americans have is absolutely no savings. That is a bit of an exaggeration. Americans generally have low savings, but they have some. So, the question, this might be a longer-term issue or things you'd push back to May and June and I think we have to reassess then. But as for now, we're only with a handful of problems. Nobody is trying to get out of the lease. Mostly about trying to find a way to pay and concern about late fees too and stuff like that, given that the government checks haven’t arrived yet.

Ryan: (06:44) I know by the first of the month we'd only had four people reach out in response to our staff and only one of them could actually prove it. So, I would definitely make sure, I mean this is kind of a trust but verify situation. One of my buddies had a tenant reach out and said, yeah, rent's not going to be coming in and it's four grown men who all work at Amazon. He was like, yeah, no, rent still due. Like unless you can prove that Amazon for some reason laid you off due to Covid and nothing else. So, I do think that's unfortunately, there's always going to be folks that are looking to work or game the system a little bit. So, you definitely do want to be on guard with that. But you also do want to be understanding for folks that are experiencing hardship.

Amanda: (07:29) I know our property manager in Eugene has been inundated a bit with people. So our business is unique in that a lot of our student to rental housing, we are in the process of pre-leasing for fall 2020 through the school year 2021 and we do have co-signers reaching out, trying to undo leases that were signed before this went into effect, which would affect the school year of fall 2020 to spring 2021. And at this point in time, it's really early to try to be getting out of those leases into the future. And so, our property manager is trying to very calmly and rationally just talk with people about having a contract and what that means. You did sign a lease and the reality of it is if we let every single person out of our lease, that's not going to work for our business model. And we can't predict the future, so yes, you have to be thinking about the future, but you also can't be reacting to something that might happen in six months. So, that's where we're at.

Bill: (08:41) I think that's kind of key is looking to the future but not making the worst case scenario decisions. I read an article in the paper this morning that the University of Oregon president is taking a 12% pay cut, all the administrators are taking a 10% pay cut this year. They're anticipating, fairly hard-hit situation. Oregon state is freezing student tuition, which I think is a good idea anyway. Their dorm situation in Eugene, there were only 300 folks signed up for the dorms. They have 4,000 spaces. They're anticipating actually having to refund some students for dorms that may not be used in the fall.

Amanda: (09:32) Didn’t they have to close? They had to close the dorms for spring term as well, correct?

Bill: (09:37) Yeah, they did. I'm not sure that U of O did actually. A number of campuses did. I’m not absolutely sure they did.

Amanda: (09:42) I think the University of Oregon did and that is because we did actually have quite a few people reaching out to look for rentals right now because the dorms were closed. So, a lot of people too. It's like I have a lease until June. I need out immediately. Some of the things that we're doing is, okay, well, let us help you find a sub letter. We do have people looking to make moves right now. We have people trying to move into places. But if you want somebody to move in and you want us to show your property, we have to communicate with them as you need to move out. We can't go in and show an occupied unit right now. So, if you're serious about needing out because you can't pay your rent and you need a subletter, you have to vacate your apartment so that we can find somebody else to move into it.

Bill: (10:30) Yeah. I think if you're struggling with vacancy issues or whatever you had to really think about lowering rents, trying to get on the front side of being attractive as possible to any would be residents coming your way. I mean you want good residents who have steady and secure jobs. That is the bottom line here. So, do what you can, increase your marketing, make your places more attractive, and lower your rents as necessary. There'll be a time maybe to raise them again, it may not be for a year or who knows how long, but anything you can do to get and solidify a good paying residence is the key obviously here.

Amanda: (11:13) Right. And really as I'm commuting with Katie with our property manager who is having these direct discussions with residents and their co-signers, I'm really trying to counsel her to keep things calm and keep things relevant to right now, what's happening because we can't undo things that we've made plans for on the future on fear or what may be coming down the line. Because I mean, the reality of it is I think it would be unlikely that we're going to be quarantined in the fall. Things might be different in the fall, but I don't think we're going to be quarantined when the fall comes.

Ryan: (11:49) I would say one of the… I think one of our policies that has probably become part of our saving grace is we don't take people who've had evictions. So, we have a lot of people that I think are going to fight tooth and nail to not go the route of ending up with an eviction or a collection or a judgment on their record. Whereas I think if you have a bunch of folks who had been evicted before, they're kind of like, ah, what's one more? I get out of rent for three months. So I think that is kind of one of those, almost like a Malcolm Gladwell outliers-level advantage of no one could've predicted this coming, but like I know even us with our companies, we've never missed a payment on anything and we're doing our absolute best to continue that. So, hopefully that's what our residents are doing as well.

Amanda: (12:40) And I guess that sort of moves us into what are we doing with our people that can't pay rent. So, we're going to post if you… Like so it's different timeframes for all across the state depending on your local landlord in laws, but say for Oregon, and I think it actually, it's for a lot of our markets. On the 8th if you haven't paid your rent, we're going to post a 72-hour notice now. And that 72-hour notice is up and if you haven't paid your rent, yeah, we're not going to be filing an FTD or an eviction, but we're going to mark our place in line. We're going to reach out, we're going to try to communicate with you. We're going to try to set up a payment plan. We're going to do anything that we can to try to move this forward. Even if that means you move out of your place so we get the keys back and we can find somebody to move in that can rent. I mean that's our worst case. But I would rather that happen than have to follow through with an eviction on someone because if we get possession back, I'm not inclined to go be trying to evict somebody just to have it on their record. That's really reserved for somebody who will not move out of a place and I have to force the court to tell me that I can have possession of our property back.

(13:53) So, we're going to be doing all of those things because at some point, and I know this sounds very harsh, but at some point the eviction stay is going to be over and we're all going to be left sitting here trying to pick up the pieces as best we can. And I don't want to then be beholden to having to file ourselves again. So, we're going to follow our processes. Our processes this time are going to be a lot more targeted. I mean they are always targeted and trying to make contact and communicate with people, but we're going to be spending more of our time doing that as needed to try to make deals and make payment plans that people can live with. Maybe we tack on rents to the end of their lease. Maybe we consider applying a portion of security deposit to rent. That's something that's been thrown out there. I don't know for certain if we would do that, but maybe. These are different times for all of us. We've never been through this. So here we are. We got to figure our way through it.

Andrew: (14:49) Yeah. I think, when we get to… Right now, this month at least in where the locations we're at, probably things like just dropping late fees and with proof of that they lost their job or lost hours and new payment plan is probably sufficient. If this continues, things like restructuring leases or applying parts of the security deposit to the rent, things we normally say never to do, might be something to consider. I do think there's also something, the main things you want to get in touch with everyone. Some people don't want, when they can't make their payments, they would just kind of hide away a bit. And especially when the government is issuing these checks, they've issued a lot more money for unemployment insurance. And I know a lot of unemployment, the offices for unemployment, they have just basically been overwhelmed. So that's another backlog.

(15:41) So a lot of these people will be getting money and that's great, but it's going to be coming later down the line. And so, it's important to get in communication with them. And I think this is kind of reiterating one of the things by my younger brother, Philip, who's at our property management here in Kansas City and in the past he talked about when you're talking to your residents about these situations, you really want to emphasize that this is not an antagonistic relationship. Both of your goals are the same for the person to stay in the property, to make their payments, not to have to leave.

(16:15) The big thing Philip always does is to say there's an enemy, but it's not us and it's not you. It's something else. And it usually says it's either the law. Like the law requires us to treat every single resident the same or it's the lease, it’s this provision in it or perhaps a company policy or something like that. Or the owner if you're just a manager or the past or the situation. And this is the situation, this horrible problem. And so, really when you're talking to them, it's not, you must do something, you must do this, it's your fault or let them blame you. Keep pushing off – “This situation is the problem”. The coronavirus, the lockdown, the quarantine, all the economic, the recession and all the issues we're having. That is the issue, that is the problem focus that is the enemy. You are working together to find the best solution. It might not be the solution they want. The solution they want is for them that you don't have to pay rent at all. And the solution you want is for them to pay three times right.

(17:08) But the best possible solution to the current situation and generally at least at in April, that should be, I suspect in most places, maybe not in New York and in San Francisco and the like, to be able to push back that rent date because of the ability, the extra money they gave on employment, the checks they're issuing, the things like that. And so now what comes in May, I think that that's hard to say. We're going to have to have another podcast then, especially since the government, we don't know what the “stay at home” order will still be in place. We don't know if coronavirus will start to trend down as it gets warmer. We don't know if the government wants you another stimulus. We don't know if there's going to be a major inflation issue. So, there's all those things going on and we're just going to have to play it by ear - week to week to week. There's one thing you want to be in communication with them. You want to address it correctly. See the problem is not them. The problem is not you. The problem is this situation. Try to be on the same team. And right now, I think the big thing is just working out payment plans with them because there is money available.

Bill: (18:15) You know what? I think what Andrew just said, you might want to rewind and listen to that because that is the difference between approaching landlording or property management as a business owner versus as a hobbyist. And I think if you were to make any pivot right now in your own mindset, if you've been into kind of real estate as a hobby, rental properties as a hobby, this is really time to change directions here. And that's not to get harsh or difficult to deal with, but it is to approach this like a business that Amanda talked about. We still are issuing 72-hour notices. We're still moving ahead with that. Andrew talked about how our residents… We're not the enemy, they're not the enemy, the policies, the rental agreement, the regulation…

Ryan: (19:07) The “Rona”.

Bill: (19:08) ...under the law.

Andrew: (19:09) Covid-19.

Bill: (19:10) Yeah. So that's really our business mindset. And if you're just kind of winging it or being informal or saying, well, we'll talk about it next month and just playing this off as a kind of an informal relationship with your residents, this is not the way to go forward. So maybe this is the time to…

Ryan: (19:32) Well, I've even seen a couple people do things that I think are going to come back to bite them. I saw a smaller landlord who I think owned like three or four properties, right? Posted this thing of like, as affluent property owners, we need to just give people a free month. And it was like, no, that's really going to suck for you in month or two comes around and they expect another free month.

Bill: (19:56) Well, I saw a wealthy couple in, I think it was in the LA area who made the gesture and it's a kind gesture of basically forgiving a month's rent to all their residents. The unfortunate thing though is what does that say to everybody else who is dependent on that rental income to make their mortgage and insurance and tax payments, etc. I felt like instead of promoting the fact that they're so generous, they might've thought of a different way to approach this because again, that's not treating it as a business. If you're wealthy enough to do that, great, turn around and send checks or something like that.

Ryan: (20:34) Most people aren’t.

Andrew: (20:36) Yeah, if you're in a position to do that and you want to do that, that's a great thing. I would be very clear with your residents if you're going to do that. But what you're doing, you're not giving free rent until the crisis is over. You're giving one month and you should say, this is really all I can afford to do if you intend to do that, if you can. Many can't. And so it's just kind of…

Bill: (20:58) Yeah, some people own their places free and clear and gosh, if they can step in and be generous, God bless that act of generosity. We appreciate it. Just be careful. Again, you've got a business on your hand. If every single property you own is free and clear, you still are operating a business. You need to keep that kind of mindset.

Ryan: (21:16) I mean I had a really good point of notices are still going out. So, I think the first thing that that's going to show residents that don't pay is like, oh, like they're not playing around like, this isn't a free ride. Like we're going to be constant. Now at the same time, obviously our goal is never to evict anyone. We don't want to leave anybody who interacts with our companies ever in a worse position than where they started. But at the same time to kind of highlight Andrew and Phillip's point in Kansas City, you do want to have human conversations with people. You do want to make sure it isn't antagonistic as “Us verses Them”. And I mean the fact of the matter is you're going to have people that just feel like you're the wealthy landlord and sucking them dry and that it is what it is. But for a lot of these folks, it's, hey look, we get it. We have families as well. We have staff as well, so you know what? What can you do? I think it's just really being open to having those conversations. And I would also make sure you have your policies for that in writing because as we've kind of mentioned before with blaming the law on this, you do want to make sure you're treating everyone exactly the same. That way you don't intentionally or unintentionally get yourself in some hot water.

Amanda: (22:37) So let's talk about May. So, we're moving through April is the beginning, but of course have somebody collect our rents. I've seen a lot of kind of big things like people saying, okay, well, I'm going to offer this or if you pay a year in full you could get a big discount or you could do something like that. For our business, if we were to offer a big discount just to collect what we can now, it wouldn't necessarily work for our business. If we were to say if you pay your rent for the year in full, which I don't know that very many people could even take us up on that, we'll offer you a 30% discount. That 30% margin is…

Ryan: (23:20) It’s all the cash flow.

Amanda: (23:21) Yeah and likely we don't make 30% cashflow on a property. So that would really be cutting into our ability to even make the property work. So that's not something we're offering. It's not something we're offering across the board. We just have to hold the line to the extent that we can hold the line and collect. We can collect because the reality of it is fortunately a lot of people do still currently have jobs and fortunately there are extra unemployment resources and extra funds out there for people. So, we just have to make sure that people are making paying their rent a priority and know that they're taking us seriously. We're not threatening, we're just being reasonable. We are providing a house or apartment for them to live in. We expect to be compensated for that. We have mortgages to pay, we have maintenance to pay, we have property taxes to pay, we have insurance to pay. That's just the reality of all of that situation. So, for our company, it's not going to work great for us to say you'll get a discount for prepaying because that discount is all money that we need to cover the costs on those properties.

Ryan: (24:33) I think one of the other kinds of things just to keep in mind is because we are talking about housing, like people are being told to shelter in place. That's kind of hard to do if you don't have a place. So, I think for a lot of people they are making this a priority of they don't want to be out and about touring properties right now if they don't have to. They don't want to go through the process of moving. You think your friends are going to help you move right now? Good luck. So, I think that's just kind of one of the other things we have going on. And I think it's important that people know that we are human, we will work with them, but at the same time we have obligations in the same way that they do. And our obligations are to be Good Stewards of what we've been entrusted with. That includes our finances, that includes the resources we have, our housing, but that also includes the amount of mouths we feed. The amount of families we shelter. If we made emotional or reckless or rash decisions right now that could affect a lot of people. So, I think it's really just taking it day by day, case by case and making the best decisions we can make based off the data we have.

Bill: (25:47) Part of being business owners too is you need to look into the future of who you're renting to obviously in this day and age. And you can't discriminate, but you can look carefully at the anticipated job situ...or the job situation of the resident that you're looking at, the potential new renter. Normally we don't look deeply into what their job is just as long as they're making enough income.

Ryan: (26:17) What’s the income source?

Bill: (26:18) Yeah. And I'm looking at a graph here about March, job one-month net changes. And of course, leisure and hospitality are way out there in terms of job loss. Professional business services are… Now we're talking about 10% of what leisure and hospitality is. Construction jobs have been lost, retail trades. So, we had a situation where a family is moving from California to Eugene and they're in the restaurant business, but fortunately as we looked a little deeper, they're in the takeout pizza business. They just bought a couple of franchises in our area. And so, it's kind of like, whoa, that's a good restaurant business to be in right now compared to others.

Ryan: (27:06) Like a Steakhouse.

Bill: (27:09) It is what it is as you look a little more deeply into the source of income that new prospective renters have.

Ryan: (27:18) We look deeply if we think it's drugs. But otherwise it's kind of like, can you verify income? Okay, cool, good.

Bill: (27:25) You know that could be good money right now. I don't know.

Ryan: (27:28) I mean, hey, I've debated making some trips back to the Midwest.

Amanda: (27:35) Alcohol business is currently soaring so…

Ryan: (27:38) Well, that's because people feel afraid and they'd rather feel nothing at all. That's what's going on there. But I also loved, in California they decided all of the dispensaries were “agricultural”. I'm like, oh.

Andrew: (27:51) Essential businesses. Essential business.

Ryan: (27:54) Convenient pivot to keep that open. Like, yeah. Okay. So, I want to kind of pivot the discussion a little bit because we're all in kind of different circles. Andrew's fairly active on BiggerPockets. I've got a Mastermind group I run of “buy and hold” investors. Bill and Amanda are deeply involved with all of these other markets. So, what are you guys, Andrew, let's start with you. From the little bit of time I've spent on BiggerPockets lately, it's kind of either like the sky's falling or like we just don't know yet. But what are you kind of seeing? What do you feel like the general consensus is amongst investors on BiggerPockets right now?

Andrew: (28:37) I mean, there's a lot of concern and a lot of “We don't know yet”. I wouldn't say most of them. I mean, they'll find some corner of the internet armpit side about like some rent strike or some Maoists talking about that kind of bladder and to get them all freaked out a little bit.

Ryan: (28:56) Most of the time.

Andrew: (28:58) Most of the time. Yeah. Those things are not very big at all. Most of it is sort of, “We don't really know what's going on. Let's be vigilant”. There's a lot of articles about a lot of posting on it. The articles that have come out on coronavirus stuff versus the other things they've had. I mean, they just go to the top and the other stuff goes to the bottom very quickly.

(29:24) It seems from what I've been gathering, most people are doing okay in April. It's still early, but most people are doing all right with collections. And I think that a lot of that comes from people, again, the stereotype is Americans have no savings. We could go into some of those statistics, but they're often inflated. They try to make things sound worse than they are. Americans do usually have some savings. And again, 20% unemployment rate or whatever it will be, that's extraordinarily high. But then again, there's still millions, most people have a job. And in addition to that, there's unemployment, there's these rental checks coming in down the line. So, there's other sources. So, from what I've seen, most people are doing pretty well. They're down a bit, we're down a bit, but it's by no means a catastrophe. And it probably won't be in terms of rental income questions, unless this drags on for another couple of months.

Bill: (30:19)  [Inaudible] I think the regulations are going to loosen up. I know that.

Andrew: (30:24) Yeah, that's also helpful.

Ryan: (30:25) I think you also have a lot of people that are just waiting to go wild. You got a bunch of people that have been cooped up for a month that want to go out to eat. They want to go out to drink, they want to travel, they want to… So, I'm hoping that factor will kind of help some of the local small businesses and stuff as well once people get back out. I mean, I know my barber was saying he's got people pre-booking out all through like May and June already of people that are like, I need to get in. I need to get in as soon as I can. So I think it'll be interesting to see.

Amanda: (30:55) Well, I'm offering barber services, so I offered them…

Bill: (30:59) Yeah, tell us about your husband's situation Amanda.

Amanda: (31:01) Well, he needed a haircut and the barber was closed, so he entrusted his hair follicles to me and it wasn't great, but he got a haircut.

Andrew: (31:14) Nobody's haircuts are great at this time.

Ryan: (31:16) And now he looks like Dr. Phil.

Amanda: (31:20) It's hard to look at it right now because all I can look at is the bad haircut I gave him. And hopefully he can just wear a hat for a while until it grows a little bit.

Ryan: (31:33) I know I've kind of seen the same thing as Andrew and in our community of most people really still are doing okay on the rental side of things. I mean, I still think the very interesting thing about this event is for some businesses this is the best thing since sliced bread. And for other businesses this is like, oh my gosh, we were not prepared for this. So, I do think there's been some very, very interesting shifts and pivots. I was talking to my wife and I was actually talking to Bill and I think going forward the United States as a whole is going to be a little bit more germaphobic. I wouldn't be surprised if I think Bill used the phrase kind of the culture of the mask that you see overseas in some places. I think you're definitely going to have people in the States that that sticks and maybe that's not a bad thing.

(32:28) Maybe people wash their hands a little extra going forward. But I do think it'll be interesting. I think my hope out of all of this is I think a lot of people are getting time to sit down and think, which they don't normally have. So, I hope a lot of people that are in careers that they don't like or in situations they shouldn't be or maybe right now financially they're devastated and they realize I need to stop living beyond my means. I think, I'm hoping for a lot of people that this is kind of not necessarily a wakeup call, but a chance to just kind of reassess what they want out of life and really go after that. My fear is like most things business or zoom as usual. So, we'll see.

Amanda: (33:09) Yeah, definitely. That being said, we should probably wrap this up today. Just remember, you can find us on the Follow us, subscribe to our podcast, share with your friends. Feel free to reach out. We're open to topic ideas that you'd like to hear about or just answering questions. Make sure you follow us in case we have any future, which we will, live webinars, that sort of thing. The best way to know about that is to make sure you're subscribed to us. Thanks for joining us today.