The Good Stewards Real Estate Podcast

Investors, Where To Go From Here?

Episode Summary

As there is more and more talk on reopening and businesses stabilizing more in the current market, this will be our last COVID-centric episode. Now is not the time to make mistakes but don’t let that stop you from making offers. Now is really a time that you've got to roll up your sleeves and get your hands dirty and pivot if you need to.

Episode Notes

What’s Keeping Us Moving In This Market:

2:30: We saw the upward pressure in the market. Homeowners pulled their properties off the market, which has kept inventory low.

5:10: Conventional wisdom is to pull back off the market, but Ryan’s team nor the Eugene team hasn’t scaled back their business.

7:15: Buying at the best of your ability is Stewardship’s form of dollar-cost averaging.

9:00: The margin of safety is a very important indicator of the soundness of a business. 

11:05: We talk all the time about being able to get deals at price points that make sense for you. Why stop if they still make sense for you?

12:00: People are perpetually sitting on the sideline making sure they don’t catch a falling knife.

14:30: Amanda has a different perspective, it may not make sense for you to start out your investing career right now. Everything moved so fast and in our case, economies of scale are working in our favor.

17:00: Every investor should have at all times multiple exit strategies and contingency plans.

Government Regulation Has Increased:

21:00: Real estate investing kind of mirrors business, and you want to be in a market that is pro-business. Educate yourself on the local laws and regulations.

23:30: Anytime there is more government regulation, there are usually unintended consequences.

What Banks Are Doing--Student Rentals?:

24:26: The one thing that helped Stewardship through 2007, 2008, 2009 was keeping a pulse on the market of financing for buyers. At this point, it hasn't really dried up, but it could.

27:50: Focus on expanding the number of banking relationships whenever you can.

30:30: One of Stewardship’s four bankers said that they’re watching the Universities closely and probably won’t refinance our student rentals.

Connect with the Good Stewards:

Episode Transcription

Ryan: (00:00) The important thing here that we talk about all the time is being able to get deals at price points that make sense for you. I know a lot of investors are hesitant to go direct to a seller looking for off market deals, but at the same time, I mean, even if it's something you don't want, there's the potential for you to take that property, turn around and list it on the MLS. Maybe do a light rehab or do a full rehab. Now is really a time that you've got to kind of roll up your sleeves and get your hands dirty.

INTRO: (00:33) Welcome to The Good Stewards podcast, the only podcast dedicated to seasoned real estate investors who want to maximize the cashflow potential in their business. We are “buy and hold” investors with a thousand plus properties and markets across the U.S. who bring an insider's view into the nitty gritty details of real estate investing. If you're looking to develop the mindset teams and systems that can dramatically build your real estate business and network, you're in the right place.

Ryan: (01:05) Welcome to this episode of The Good Stewards podcast. I'm Ryan Dossey.

Amanda: (01:10) I’m Amanda Perkins.

Bill: (01:11) I'm Bill Syrios.

Andrew: (01:12) And I'm Andrew Syrios.

Ryan: (01:14) Hello Good Stewards and welcome to this installment of our incredible podcast. I want to thank Karen and Blake in particular for leaving us a review that just helps us get in front of other investors, just like you. So, thank you guys very much for taking the time to do that. In today's episode we're going to just talk about some of the trends we're noticing, including actually some upward pressure on markets. A really, really interesting time to be involved in real estate and quite frankly, being in a central business, there's nothing else I'd rather be doing other than maybe owning Sharman.

(01:51) But, before we dive in, we do want to connect with you, be sure to visit us over at, subscribe to the podcast, snag your free copy of our eBook. Bill wrote this thing. It's like 500 pages long, but it will literally give you our business in an eBook. Be sure to share our podcast with your friends and as always leave us a review. Never know we may throw your name out next time and hit us up with any comments or questions that you have.

(02:21) So starting in, just kind of on the upward pressure that we've seen. And this isn't just in my market in Indianapolis. Bill mentioned they've seen it in Eugene. I've talked to some friends of mine in some more expensive markets like DC and Miami, and they're seeing similar things. So, I think what's happened is people that had their homes listed when Covid kind of hits, I don't know if it was a fear thing or “people aren't going to pay what I want”, pulled their properties off the market, which has lowered inventory, but there's still people looking to buy. I mean, for instance, I'm moving to Pensacola in September. Whether I like it or not, I've got to go buy a house in this time in the market.

(03:06) So, the interesting thing we've seen in Indianapolis is actually lower days on market. So, properties are selling faster, but we've also seen an increase in the price per square footage of new assets being sold. So, kind of interestingly on this, we've got a rental that was vacant that we threw up, because it was no longer BRRRR-able. So, we had a tenant park a, 30,000 pounds semi loaded with junk on the original driveway. And I mean just kind of snapped it. Amanda, I don't remember the total like $9,000.

Amanda: (03:41) Yeah, in that ballpark to fix the driveway.

Ryan: (03:45) It's like $8,000 or $9,000. Right? So, we're still a good deal. But we went from being into a $125,000 house for like $80,000 into the low nineties. So, we decided let's throw this on the market and see what happens. We listed it, got a cash offer from a 1031 exchange who then kind of did what I was expecting.

(04:06) They came back and were just out of their mind on things they wanted fixed. For instance, I believe they wanted $7,000 or $8,000 for HVAC, which in a 1200 square foot house is a bit excessive given what we’ve paid.

Andrew: (04:22) Just a wee bit.

Ryan: (04:24) Yeah. I mean, I was like, that's about double, but okay. So, we kind of made the executive decision to go ahead and throw the property back out on the market, even deeper into Covid. Like, “Oh no, what's going to happen?” We'd taken a $125,000 cash offer. We are listed at $129,000. We took an offer of $135,000. So, $10,000 more. They actually used the 1031 buyer’s inspection response. And we only agreed to fix like four things. They said that was great. So, their inspection is already done. We're fixing those items headed to closing. That being said, this is not a particularly lovely house.


(05:03) I mean, it's got rental grade carpet in there that somebody we evicted lived on for a year, year and a half and has the hot pink and baby blue bathrooms still as well as kind of the original galley kitchen. So, by no means was this cream of the crop. And we actually sold through what I personally believe is over retail. I wouldn't be surprised if that property doesn't appraise, but that's kind of one of the interesting things that's going on in the market. Every showing, every realtor that we talked to on it, all told us the same thing of this client has lost out on four or five other houses. Right? So, I think just a very, very conventional wisdom is we should probably pull back. And I mean, by not pulling back on our buying and selling side, we've done very, very well the past two months.

Amanda: (05:58) Right. No, I agree. We have a stake in a small development in Eugene and the houses have continued to sell. I think what's driving that possibly is part of it is these are brand new houses, so you don't have to… It's easier for showings. They aren't lived in. Additionally, interest rates being so low are really driving buyers to the market because they can take advantage. We're back at a record of low interest rate situation. So, I mean, I think those two factors, and low inventory, low interest rates are meaning there are currently buyers in the market.

Bill: (06:38) We've talked about this before about a dollar cost averaging in the stock market where somebody puts in say $5,000, $10,000 every quarter. And they do it religiously their whole life because nobody can time the market, except if you're Warren Buffet maybe, or a few others.

Ryan: (06:58) Or an executive who steps down and invested heavily into stock after a federal Covid briefing. But continue.

Bill: (07:05) Inside trading also helps you to not have to do dollar cost averaging. But I think we've applied that to real estate. And Andrew, you may know the number on this, but if you invested like over 10 specific days during the year, every calendar year, that's when the stock market really goes nuts in an upward sort of way, but nobody can figure out when those 10 days are. And then there's a significant number of days that also goes down but nobody knows those days either. The rule of the road here, I think is that you should buy to your best ability at all times, because there's a lot of counterintuitive things going on in the market.

(07:50) We all thought, “Oh, let's just stop, wait, look around, figure out what's going on”. And then all of a sudden, Andrew pulls the trigger on 36 properties that came our way. Or no, excuse me, it's 26 properties. Yeah. Because they are a good deal and let other people respond in a fearful sort of way. We're the ones who want to be on the other side of that picking things up. Of course, we want to be careful obviously, but if they make sense at that point in history, I think you need to consider pulling the trigger.

Ryan: (08:25) Particularly it will cash flow and pay for itself.

Bill: (08:28) That is making sense. Yes.

Ryan: (08:30) I don't know the exact percentage, but from my research, I think it was like 1.5% to 2% that most markets dropped a month during the last crash. Does that sound about accurate?

Bill: (08:40) Yes, I would say so.

Andrew: (08:42) Yeah. I mean, if you average it, there were some months that were quite a bit more rocky.

Ryan: (08:47) Okay. So, on an average about 1,5%. So, I mean, I think particularly it's a really good reason to highlight is making sure that you're getting good deals.

Bill: (08:57) You want a margin of safety anytime you buy. And if you're buying at 75%, your margin of safety is 25%. So, let's say you can allow the market to go down 15%, even 20%, you still pay a real estate commission and get out whole. That's a pretty good situation. So, if you're really keeping yourself to that kind of criteria, I say, why not? Keep buying, keep looking around for those deals. And, a matter of fact, we have run into a couple of situations in our last two purchases where we got a better deal because of the Covid thing. The seller was even more motivated in both cases. One, we got a lease option and the folks, gave us a break on the holding costs. We would normally have to go out to a private lender and borrow in this case $350,000. And because they own the property free and clear, they said, wait, for the next four months, we can pay them $500 a month. So, things like that, little wrinkles like that you can find because people think, yeah, the market's disturbed.

Ryan: (10:06) I do think it's important to highlight though - That’s off market. So, on market, this property I took a $135,000 offer for, some poor, sad soul of a “buy and hold” investor who hopefully doesn't listen to our show, came along and was like, “Yeah, with Covid going on, these are real uncertain times”. So, his realtor presented an offer form of $90,000 to which I just replied with LOL, right? I'm not going to sell to you for, does that $35,000? Below my list when I sold for $5,000 over to somebody else. So, I mean, if you've been around me…

Amanda: (10:45) But maybe he didn't know that you weren't necessarily that motivated of a seller.

Ryan: (10:50) No, I mean, don't get me wrong. I don't blame him for shooting a shot, but I can still laugh at him.

Andrew: (10:56) I don’t recommend responding to buyers with LOL.

Ryan: (11:00) Unless it's really low. I find it's nicer than not replying at all. I did include a screenshot of a significantly higher offer. So, it was a little more polite than that. But I think the important thing here that we talk about all the time is being able to get deals at price points that make sense for you. And I know a lot of investors are hesitant to go direct to seller looking for off market deals, but at the same time, I mean, even if it's something you don't want, there's the potential for you to take that property, turn around and listed on the MLS, maybe do a light rehab or do a full rehab. But I think now is really a time that you've got to kind of roll up your sleeves and get your hands dirty if you're looking for deals. I think the other thing that's a little bit comical is all of the people that were like, “Oh, I can't wait for the next crash. I'm just going to go on a buying spree” - They're now the ones that are like, “Just got to wait, just got to wait and see what happens”. It's like, you're never going to buy anything.

Andrew: (12:09) I would agree and disagree. I think there are a lot of people who perpetually sit on the sideline. That being said, the time to buy it in the last crash was not…

Ryan: (12:19) A month in.

Andrew: (12:20) It wasn't yeah, late mid-2008. It was really when the bottom started to become apparent when… The best time to buy of all is at the trough obviously. And if you can do it right because you can't buy everything at once is to start buying right before the trough. You can't predict that exactly. But if the market is in free fall, you don't want to catch a falling knife. And so, I think you do need to be a bit more conservative with your offers. But people are just like, “Can I sit on the sideline?” I mean, you got to be ready to jump in. Like you can't be… Sure, I want to see how things play out.

(12:54) I'm of the opinion that you should not stop buying, but you should be very conservative until probably about a month after the lockdown end or there about once we kind of see where things are at. Because the market is not going to collapse and then rebound in a month. Like there's not going to be a V shape recovery, even if there is that's way too much of a V. So, you'll have time, but once it becomes apparent and there's never going to be just perfectly crystal clear, no one's going to be shouting like, “This is the perfect time to buy”. Well, there will be people saying that, but there's no… It's not going to just be like, “Manna from heaven is telling you that it's time to do it”.

(13:29) You've got to be ready to jump in. And that being said at the beginning of a downfall, especially right now, when there's low inventory, which is probably causing prices to stay high, especially with the FED just printing money like it is, interest rates are so low - Be ready, make offers, be conservative now. But yeah, I think the market will probably start to fall and that's the time you really want to get in, but don't just sit on the sidelines, twiddling your thumbs waiting. It's time to be in that light when a cat is ready to pounce, you should be, you're kind of kind of like… Looking at that mouse, quiet, like…

Amanda: (14:09) Well, I mean, I have one…

Andrew: (14:10) You should be in that position right now.

Amanda: (14:12) I have a little different perspective because I think it's one thing for us in our business to think about things because we're about like a thousand units collectively in all of our organizations, probably a little bit more than that. We have a longevity of acquiring those. So, we have a lot of built in equity, just because of things that we've owned for a long time. I do think if you were starting out in the market right now, this might not be the best time for you to get into it. Because for instance, for us, like we're looking at closing on a 26-property package. It's possible by the time we get there to refinance that package, we're going to have to wait a little bit longer if the values that go down, if there's some fluctuation, but for us, we know that they can cash flow based on where we're buying them right now, if we have to keep our private lender loans in place for a while, we'll have to do that.

(15:07) But there are different levels of investor and different seasons of investor and it might be a tricky time for some people trying to come into the market. Or maybe you just have five right now. And if one or two of those people aren't paying rent right now, and you're looking to try to acquire, that's going to be a scary time for you. So, I mean, I do think it depends on who you are as a real estate investor and where you're at in your life of investing. Because I mean, I do think strategically, like we've been in it for a little bit longer, we have a little bit bigger situation, more economies of scale that are working in our favor.

Bill: (15:47) But this is the same thing we faced into 2007/2008 in Stewardship. And even though we were a “buy and hold” organization, we decided we have to flip properties now. It's something that was actually kind of new to us. And I think if you're worried about the market and whatever side you're on, if you're a “buy and hold”, or if you're a wholesaler or a flipper, retail, whatever you are, get in and get out. If you're worried about it. So, don't stop buying, just buy with good margins and then go ahead and turn around and sell. So, don't get out of the game, I would say always stay in the game because it just gives you an excuse.

Amanda: (16:30) No, I mean, and I wasn't… I mean, definitely I hear what you're saying, but again, thinking of somebody who might be in a different position than us, I mean, we made some “buy and hold” decisions back in the late 2000s.

Bill: (16:44) We did. Yeah.

Amanda: (16:46) That was tough. They were tough to stomach through, and they took a really long time to turn around.

Bill: (16:53) We made some decisions that weren't “buy and hold”, but we had to “buy and hold”. Because we were still upside down in some properties. It was pathetic.

Ryan: (17:03) I think the important thing to highlight here is something that every investor should have at all times and that is multiple exit strategies and contingency plans. Now is not the time to get a hard money loan to try to do a BRRRR deal that you don't think you can flip, or that's an appreciation play. Never do that anyway. But now is not the time to go into something with, like, “Yeah, I've got a six-month private lender loan, and I've just got to hope the bank will like refund me out in six-months”. Like now is the time that you need to go into the deal with multiple exits. Like I know that 26 package you guys looked at, these could be probably parceled off and sold individually for a profit if need be. Now that's not the goal with them, but you have more options than just “This has to be this”.

Bill: (17:57) And that's one reason too, another conservative play is to stay with four and under units because those can always be financed with residential loans. And it's just easier. Anytime you go five or above, you're talking about a commercial property. So again, that's another more conservative place to stay with one to four at this point.

Ryan: (18:21) I mean, even single families.

Amanda: (18:22) Or if you want to go multifamily, I would, not to be too political about this, but I would maybe stick closer to the middle of the country based on some decisions that state governments wouldn't make that might affect you as a landlord. We've talked about previously just cities making blankets…

Ryan: (18:45) Let's talk about LA’s potential rent thing they threw out. So, the city of… Well, I should say, I won't name political parties. One group of the political party side…

Andrew: (18:59) There is a republican party in LA? I thought it was just Arnold.

Ryan: (19:05) The parliament of LA has decided to push forth, it's like a rent cancellation bill.

Amanda: (19:13) Did you call it the parliament of LA? I just wanted to clarify.

Ryan: (19:18) Yeah. And this is so, so I mean just favorable to landlords. So, they would effectively allow your tenant to live in your property for 12 months for $0. But in return they will give you an equal tax credit split up over the next 10 years.

Amanda: (19:37) No, not over the next 10 years. It’s beginning in 2024. And then the hidden… So, 2024 to 2034 you would get those tax credits.

Ryan: (19:46) I mean, that's pretty advantageous. I mean, if I can choose between having my money now or not having that money now, not being able to make any sort of a return and kicking the can down the road 20 years while I figured out how to pay my mortgage for a year. I mean, again, guys, this is one of the reasons if you're doing “buy and hold” investing, you may want to pick and choose where you invest.

Amanda: (20:09) You have to. Yes. You have to know what…

Ryan: (20:12) Illinois? I wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole from what I've heard from my friends who invest there. Now, that's not to say, there's not a way to do it. And maybe you have different systems or things in place. But I like being in a market that if somebody doesn't pay me, the sheriff's like, “Let's go get them out”. Right? Like, that's my preference.

Bill: (20:29) In Illinois I guess they just passed a law that you can't flip properties without putting them… In other words, you can't…

Ryan: (20:37) Like being a dealer or something.

Bill: (20:39) Yeah. If you don't put them into your name first. So, that just makes it for those who want to sell the contract, makes it more expensive because they have to close it.

Ryan: (20:48) Well, and I think I have like, you can only do like the first one a year is fine. I think it's like up to five and then it gets like, there's like tax penalties. Again, I would say real estate investing kind of mirrors business, and you want to be in a market that is pro-business. That is logical. So, that's just, that's my take on it.

Andrew: (21:19) Yeah. Generally speaking, that's definitely true.

Amanda: (21:21) Well, I mean, basically it means educate yourself on what local laws and regulations are. It doesn't make it…I mean, we're in Oregon. We're in a very liberal state. And there are laws that are constantly being enacted that do come down and affect us. So far nothing has been so onerous that it makes it difficult, but we've had to really adjust the way we've done business over the last year, year and a half, just based on some things that have come down. And a lot of it just had to do with, it's one, we only have one very large city in Oregon, Portland. Portland houses or Portland surrounding areas, houses half the population of the state.

And so, if they enact something for the state to try to curb what's happening in Portland, it's going to trickle down to the entire state.

Ryan: (22:12) Just cut the state in half. North Oregon, South Oregon.

Amanda: (22:19) On the other side of that, what was happening and the reason why they tried to do it is people were losing their housing because rent kind of blew up. Everything kind of blew up. And so, rents were getting increased at a rate that people couldn't keep up with. And so, people were losing their housing based on just onerous rent increases. We were not necessarily a business that handles things that way. But if you can make more money, people are going to do that. And so, I do see some sides to it, but there's unintended consequences that come with making blanket legislature like that.

(22:57) There are many people that need to lose their ability, for you to house them because they're very bad tenants, not residents, they're bad tenants. But we have a harder time getting bad tenants out now based on legislature that they were trying to make it so that rents weren't increasing at such a rate that they were, and there were just a lot of unintended consequences. And so, we have to creatively find our way around that.

Ryan: (23:26) I mean, anytime there's more government regulation, there's always unintended consequences.

Andrew: (23:31) And you can look at if you want, this is not landlord tenant law, but you can look at the Mercedas center has a list of economic freedom by the state's rankings. Of the top five best, number one, New Hampshire. The list of live free or die status if that makes sense. South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, and then Colorado. Missouri is six. That's not too bad. That's not bad. Oregon is 38. And the bottom five are California, Maryland, Rhode Island, New Jersey and Maine. Maine being the worst, which is surprising. New York is 44th. I would've thought it'd be New York and California. But yeah… Probably [24:13 Inaudibile]

Amanda: Bill, they're coming to lock you up.

Bill: (24:20) Come and take me away.

Ryan: (24:22) The tenants finally got their way.

Bill: (24:26) I think one of the things though, to keep your… The one thing that helped us through 2007, 2008, 2009 is to keep our pulse on the market of financing for buyers. At this point, it hasn't really dried up. There are nervous lenders out there, all over the place, but really hasn't dried up yet. And so, if you're able to sell properties to willing, able, and interested buyers out there, I think the market is going to stay fairly stable. That if you kept your hand on the pulse of anything, keep it on that. Ask around, talk to real estate agents, talk to lenders, figure that out. Because when the financing market starts drying up, that’s when you're going to start seeing a problem in our country. I don't know. I'll throw this out. Have you guys heard much, seen much about that?

Amanda: (25:26) Yeah, I think they're tightening restrictions. And I think we've talked about this a little bit. One of the reasons why is because of foreclosures being… We're in deferment where they're deferring foreclosures and services are still responsible to come up with payments for all of those investors back blown. So, I do know that lending has tightened for residential. Now, if you're a qualified buyer with a 20% down, you're probably going to have an easier time finding a loan, but some of those…

Ryan: (26:00) Even FHA, if you've got a good credit score and have a reasonable amount of money in savings, I mean a couple months’ worth of reserves. I mean, I think what we've seen is the kind of lower end low credit score, lower nothing down. I mean, those criteria, as of all kind of skyrocketed. But your conventional, your FHA, I mean if you have a somewhat decent to more than decent credit score, those people aren't having any problem buying houses. I think that's one of the things you can look at is, if you have access to the MLS and you can actually run a search of sold properties based on what sort of loan the person who bought that property utilized. So, if you are looking for say fix and flip deals, you may want to look for deals in an area that is maybe more conventional than FHA or assisted type down payment stuff. So, I think it's really just looking for the opportunities. And then, I mean, even looking at kind of the asset class, right? Chances are in an A or B class kind of vinyl village, newer, nicer first-time home buyer, subdivision. You're going to probably have more qualified buyers than in a lower end two-bedroom, one bath, $70,000 Midwest blockhouse.

Andrew: (27:31) I've also heard, I should know from this isn't good news for new investors, but I've heard that banks have sort of… they're being very forthcoming with current clients and trusted relationships, but they're being very, very squeamish with new business relationships. And of course, that doesn't mean there's no way to get in the door. But I think it highlights something my brother said a lot is like, you want to, in good times, or whenever you can, by any means, don't take this to be like, give up, in the point. There are banks that will lend to new clients for sure. But when you can, don't just settle for one banking relationship. You want to find multiple. For one you might hit their limit. Another, you might… Sometimes banks just like are, we don't want any more single-family investment rentals, nothing as you but we're just kind of down with that.

(28:21) Ownership might change, management might change, and or their rates might get bad. Whereas if you have multiple lenders that have lent to you, and bad times… Also, you want… When you hit that trough, that's the hardest time to get loans, but maybe you have four banking relationships and three of them are saying, we're done. We're not doing this right now. But one of them sticks with you. So, you want to expand the number of banking relationships whenever you can. And this is a tough time to do it, but it doesn't mean not to do it.

Bill: (28:50) And the only thing that got us also through 2008/2009 was our private lender relationships because we couldn't get loans from banks. And that's what really dries up again when times get tough and bad banks know they're going to take losses. They are trying to hedge their bets. They're trying to take as few losses as possible and not take any further risks. So, they're tightening down the screws on their lending criteria. And when that happens, there's still private money out there. There are still people who are open to loan money between 7% and 9% interest. And those are the people you need to find to continue to funnel, to keep your funnel open for new deals.

Ryan: (29:32) I think the kind of important thing to highlight between both Bill and Andrew's thing is you're going to have to be more persistent than you're initially estimating. Like, I mean, we all love the story of how many times is Walt Disney turned down or how many times Warren Buffet got told “No” or whatever. Like those stories are fun to hear, but I don't know many people that are going to go talk to a hundred banks and still show up to the hundred and first. So, I think it really is like, you're going to probably have to put out a little bit more grit and a little bit more stick-to-itiveness than you could have. When everything's going great, everybody wants to be in real estate. So, you can just go to a buddy and “Hey, want to invest with me? - Yeah, sure. Here's a hundred grand”. When things get a little bit more tight, you're going to have to be a little bit more persistent and dig your heels in a little bit more and be realized that you're probably going to get told “No” 90% of the time. And what you're looking for is that 10%.

Amanda: (30:30) Right. And I just want to, this is kind of a little bit of a change, but we've talked about this a lot. One of our niches is in Oregon, that's huge as campus rentals while there's a lot of uncertainty with colleges right now. Specifically, California yesterday announced that they're going to be online for the first semester of the fall. Which if that happens in Oregon, that really changes things. And I know that banks are paying attention to that because yesterday, or maybe it was this morning, one of our bankers told us, “Yeah, we're interested in refinancing, but probably not campus stuff right now”, which tells me, they're concerned about if school's going to start in the fall, just as we're concerned if school's going to start in the fall. We have most of our properties leased up for the fall, but we're going to have a lot of college kids and their parents really trying to renegotiate some of those leases possibly. We don't know what's going to happen. So, it tells me that we’re not out of the woods. We might be heading into our next adjustment.

Bill: (31:42) So, I did read this just the UC system, which is what 10 California campuses, for sure, the rest of them are still deciding. And by the way, this is just, it's not self-interested at all. It's just to mention if you're in California and you can't go to in class situation, University of Oregon, I think is going to be wide open for you and Stewardship got places to rent. Okay. We can move on now.

(32:14) So anyway, we're going to try to move on to just not focus only on Covid in the future here, because there is a lot of other issues that we want to focus on when it comes to looking for real estate, finding real estate, buying real estate, renting real estate. I do think that in times of uncertainty is really a time to focus. And I think that's what we're talking about is how can you focus, make good decisions. You can't make perfect decisions. Don't set yourself up with criteria that you cannot adhere to as if you know you're never going to make a mistake. Phillip has on his wall, he has had on his wall, my third son, “Make more mistakes”. Well, maybe that's not the time to focus on that particular quote right now, but it is to say that nobody's perfect in what we're trying to do. The one thing you don't want to do is to leave the game of real estate. Now is the time to hunker down, to train up, to get coached up, to get mentored and to start if you haven't yet, to start making offers.

(33:28) And with that, we hope that you'll stay with us, with The Good Stewards. Please subscribe. Please tell your friends, please give us some likes and send us those questions. We really appreciate that because we love to answer and interact with folks who are listening in. Well, we'll sign off for now. Thanks.