The Good Stewards Real Estate Podcast

Property Management #2: Maintenance & Collections

Episode Summary

The aspect of property maintenance and collections is critical to maintaining your flow with property management. Look at this as customer service, once you have your property leased you need to follow through on your end to set the right expectations.

Episode Notes

Preventive Maintenance:

3:22: The Good Stewards all manage their properties in-house. No one else is going to value your properties like you do. No one else put in the work for finding the deals and managing construction.

5:44: You want to set in place regular checkups, water is a properties worst enemy. There’s an 80-20 principle where 20% of the residents will cause 80% of the call ins and energy you’ll have to put towards something. 

6:55: Be on the lookout when you go into a property or your maintenance person goes into a property, and that maintenance person should be your eyes and ears every time they go in. They should be mentally clicking things off. Check every water receptacle.

9:02: Look at furnace filters, clean of debris on the AC unit, look for leaks, look for pets that aren’t being paid for, check alarms/detectors. We do add carbon monoxide detectors in our homes, it increases the safety factor for the residents.

Colder Months / Mold:

11:30: We have a large student housing portfolio in Eugene, OR and over winter break, there’s a tendency where residents shut everything off--including the heat. We have a system in place where we go in about a week after the fall term ends for an inspection.

13:42: We have a mold addendum in our lease agreements informing our residents can do upfront to prevent it. Things like venting the bathroom (we hardwire fans into the light switch), keeping furniture out from the wall slightly. We make sure that we use a product called Killz in the paint during the rehab, which helps keep mold spores from forming.

Maintenance Staff:

16:02: Manage your maintenance staff, know how long projects/repairs are taking. Track mileage on company trucks. Monitor the amount of trips to Lowe’s or Home Depot, each trip must be efficient because anytime they’re in the car, they’re not maintaining a property.

18:18: Determine what supplies should be on the truck. What are the common things they keep running into? Do they have the right tools for the job.

19:26: One of the best things we’ve done in regards to maintenance or rehab crew staff is making sure they own their own tools, even if we give them an allowance up front. We’ve found that they take better care of their tools.

Collections and Resident Delinquency:

21:39: Be specific with what’s expected. Spell it out and follow the terms of the lease and do it the exact same every single month so that you're not constantly making agreements with people and then being responsible for holding them to those agreements.

22:45: Remember that the 72 hour notice to cure doesn’t start until it’s posted.

25:15: Nothing will just send your life into drama quite like believing the excuses and not honoring your agreements.

27:00: Whenever you go to court sometimes in eviction court, the major issue that's brought up against people who are renting landlords is that the reason that I have a case here of not paying my rent is because they have not maintained my property correctly. Some states even allow withholding rent.

Connect with the Good Stewards:

Episode Transcription

Bill: That's kind of the 80 20 principle. 20% of the residents will cause 80% of the call-ins and the energy that you're going to have to put towards something.

[00:00:13] Intro: Welcome to the good stewards podcast, the only podcast dedicated to seasoned real estate investors who want to maximize the cashflow potential in their business. We are buy and hold investors with a thousand plus properties in markets across the U S. who bring an insider's view into the nitty gritty details of real estate investing. If you're looking to develop the mindset teams and systems that can dramatically build your real estate business and net worth, you're in the right place.

[00:00:47] Ryan: Welcome to this episode of the good stewards podcast. I'm Ryan Dossey.

[00:00:51] Amanda: I'm Amanda Perkins.

[00:00:52] Bill: I'm Bill Syrios.

[00:00:53] Andrew: I'm Andrew Syrios.

[00:00:55] Amanda: Hello Good stewards. Today we're diving into the maintenance and collection side of property management to discuss how you can best run this to maintain your relationship with residents, but be prepared with systems and processes for both. Before we dive in, we want to connect with you. Visit us at to subscribe to the podcast and receive your free copy of our ebook guide. Don't make a profit, create a fortune.

[00:01:19] Andrew: Yeah, and I think the best way to think of maintenance in general is as your customer service, once you have a leased a property to somebody, they at that point, they like the property. Maybe they even love it. They're very excited. All the rest of that. After that you become this giant, psychopath that just takes him money every month. You, you provide the, I mean they, they've kind of grown accustomed to the house and they don't, you know, people get used to their surroundings, they get used to what they have. They don't appreciate it very much. And so all of a sudden, all you are is the negative to them. Something that they have to pay with the major exception. And there are some other things too. We're not going to be able to get to in this podcast. The major exception being your ability to perform maintenance and people certainly appreciate maintenance being done on a quick and effective schedule.

[00:02:06] There are certainly points of, of of con, you know, difficult issues with regards to like things that they need to pay for. Damage they'd done things that you can't fix, etc. But high quality maintenance is your best form of customer service in some ways. Some ways your only form of customer service and property management, and it is your best model of resident retention. That is the thing that's going to be like, Oh, I want to stay with these people. Not just because this house is where I want to live, but also because this property management company actually takes care of the property.

[00:02:36] Ryan: That's a great point. So, one of our companies is an answering service for real estate investors that I own. And, we noticed about a year ago that we had a churn problem, meaning as we'd sign people up, they'd stick around for a month or two and then leave. And we couldn't figure out what was going on. And what we realized is like a lot of real estate investors, we weren't trying to earn their business every month. It was, we were just delivering, you know, with what they agreed to, what we agreed to. We're holding up our end of the deal, but people really wanted more than that. There was a pretty interesting study that came out with regards to profitability of rental portfolios and the number one determining factor they found between whether or not a portfolio is doing really well or just, you know, leaking like a sieve came down to how long people stick with you.

[00:03:22]so wholeheartedly agree with, Andrew statement there on it being the customer service of how you earn them paying you every single month, and you're going to have months where they don't need anything.  those months are great and you're going to have other months where, where they do need things. so I think it's super important to handle that stuff in a timely manner. That's one of the reasons that we do our property management in house. A reason being as an investor, no one else is going to value your properties like you do. Nobody else put in the work of finding those deals, managing the construction, screening that resident and getting the property leased for other people. It's kinda like they want to collect their 10% and never hear from you. so. We're a big believer of you make your money when you buy, but I personally believe you really keep it through doing what Andrew discussed, keeping people happy, keeping stuff handled in a timely manner, and most importantly, getting it done right the first time.

[00:04:25]so when you're just starting out. It can be pretty difficult to afford to have like a full time maintenance guy, right? So when we first started, what we initially did was we had our general contractor who did all of our other construction work handle stuff. Well, we started to notice as, as time went on, they got slower and slower and prices started creeping up.  Ultimately, it's, it's not what they do. So a random call to deal with some plumbing or some electrical is outside of their wheelhouse. It started to become more work than it was worth, and we kind of realized, Hey, we need to change something here.

[00:05:03] So I was probably at about 30 40 units at this time. And we knew we needed a better solution, but we also knew we couldn't afford a full time maintenance guy. So we ended up kind of hacking the system a little bit, and we brought on a maintenance guy, and when he wasn't doing a maintenance for us, we'd have him do tear out on a new acquisition. Ah, this actually lowered our costs because our GC has, didn't really want to do tear outs either. Kept him busy, but then he was on call for anytime we kind of had, had the things come up. Bill, What have you seen over the years as kind of the biggest preventative, you know, Hey, if you don't fix this, it's going to come back to bite you in the middle of the lease.

[00:05:44] Bill: Number one is water is a property's worst enemy. Period. I mean water from the outside or water from the inside. And I would say one of the best things that we've done is fairly regular checkups, because there are some residents who just won't call you for things, others call you for everything. So I think, I think basically, to backup it. That's kind of the 80 20 principle. 20% of the residents will cause 80% of the callins and the energy that you're going to have to put towards something, and that's kind of how life works, is that 80 20 principles. So you're going to have to know how to deal with those who are picayunish about every little thing, but sometimes it's those 80% who don't call you. That can be the worst ones because here's a shower leak that goes on and on and on, that's dripping to the floor and it hasn't been caulked correctly. Or in a, in a tub surround that hasn't, you know, that's three piece tubs around, hasn't been caulked correctly, and all of a sudden you've got some serious dry route over time on your hands.

[00:06:53] That you didn't know about. So I would say be on the lookout when you go into a property or your maintenance person goes into a property, and that maintenance person should be your eyes and ears every time they go in. They should be mentally clicking things off. And I'll give you a few more things, but, but the first thing I would do is go in where every water receptacle is and see how, how it's doing. You know, is there any water issues? Another thing is, furnaces, furnace filters are just, you know, sometimes they can go two or three years without being replaced. Will you talk about, you know, not doing well with your, with your HVAC system when that happens?

[00:07:33] Ryan: Can I make a confession that I'm somewhat embarrassed to make? I bought my first house for my wife and I at 20. And, my dad is like super handy. So this would mortify him. I've honestly never swung a hammer on a job site and, bought our house. And for some reason it just didn't occur to me that we'd need to change the furnace filter.

[00:07:55] So eventually, like. Our furnace starts working more and more poorly. We're noticing like, like dirt coming out of our vents. it turns out you're supposed to replace those. We went like three years. I'm pretty sure torched a train system. So, you know, we're not all perfect.

[00:08:14] Bill: Yeah. Preventative maintenance is, maybe Andrew can talk to them about that, but, let me just mention a couple of things about the HVAC system. When we buy furnace filters, we buy like five. A whole pack of them and then try to store them at the house that we're at. We also keep notes. So when our maintenance guy goes back, he knows things like that where you know, the furnace filters are at, how many are there, what sizes they are, you know, because that is a thing that really needs to be changed a couple times a year. so preventative maintenance, is, is a huge part of maintenance and that is. You know, having those eyes and ears on a property. Andrew, I know in Kansas city you kind of almost establish a preventative maintenance program. Of sorts.

[00:08:58] Andrew: Yes. Almost.

[00:09:00] Bill: Okay.

[00:09:02] Andrew: Yeah, so we've gotten the first part in place of a preventative maintenance system, and what we try to do is hit, we try to hit every property twice a year. It's been more like once a year, but in this we go through, we replaced the furnace filters, we clean off any, any debris on the AC unit outside of as central air. We look for any leaks. We look for, you know, any pets that haven't, they haven't told us about that need, you know, they need to be paying pet rent on or any other issues, any, you know, people who probably shouldn't be there kind of thing. And we basically do a spot check, a check of all the, the, the fire alarms and our carbon monoxide detector. We do put carbon monoxide detectors in our houses. I think it's, it's one, it increases the safety for the resident. They appreciate it. And also legislation is probably coming down the line if it's not already there where you live. So I'd recommend doing that and we check all those things and just kind of do a general side, inspection. It usually takes 45 minutes to an hour or so. So, we can get about any maintenance technician getting about six or so in a day, maybe more if it's apartments in there, right next door to each other.

[00:10:07]it can be tougher when it's really high. high volume times for maintenance techs, which is generally at the beginning of the summer when AC's are going out and the beginning of the winter when furnaces are going out. So as we try to put them in the fall and the spring. And, and you can also have, you can have them clear out gutters, or you can put that on the resident with some taller houses. You know, the ones that are three stories or whatever that might not be possible with a one story is pretty simple. You can have the maintenance tech do that. Our general theme is to try to. Move, you know, try to cut the limbs away from the house so that we don't even have to deal with, with leaves and the gutters. And we've been pretty good about that. Also, you don't have to deal with, you know, when there's a storm tree limbs falling on your house roof.

[00:10:49] So we've, it's a challenge to keep up. It always falls to the back burner whenever there's too much maintenance going on. And of course, if you're just getting started and you have a only a handful of units and you're, you're managing yourself, it's probably not something that you can easily do. but it is something that I think is worth working toward.

[00:11:07]Ryan: I think, and I think it also shows that just that you care, right? so many landlords don't do anything preventative. It's all like firefighting that showing that you're, they're testing smoke detectors. Even like. It's small things like cleaning up the air conditioning that a lot of people who rent have rented from other people and potentially for a long time, and they start to notice, you know, all these, these guys take care of their stuff.

[00:11:30] Amanda: Well, and one thing we do in Oregon is, especially with our college student population over Christmas break, the bulk of them leave and for a month, and what they have a tendency to do is leave and shut everything off, including their heat. So we usually go in, The week after, when, you know, fall term ends and kind of do an inspection because part of their lease agreement is that they have to leave their heat on and it never fails that we will have some sort of a free, an ice storm or a snow storm over Christmas break. And if people left and turned off all of their heat. we ended up with frozen pipes and situations that, create bigger issues for us. So, you know, that's something that we go in and check on.

[00:12:15] Ryan: What would you say is the minimum the temperature should be left at for any investors that have a property that's vacant over winter?

[00:12:20] Just kind of real practical.

[00:12:21] Amanda: I think it says 55, which is pretty low actually. But,

[00:12:26] Bill: I think that will do it though.

[00:12:26] Amanda: At 55 you can still have some mold issues, but that will help, you know, that would keep the. That would at least keep the pipes from freezing. And you know, it's really the, our older stuff that we have to worry about, stuff like that. Anything that's newer built, the installation is normally better. It's still not our preference to have power off and heat off for a month during the coldest temperatures of the year. So.

[00:12:50] Bill: And you mentioned mold, which has become a big thing. some, some mold is really, from what I understand anyway, not being a mold expert is innocuous. It's really not a big deal is mold. Spores are in the air everywhere. But there are some mold, I've heard it called black mold before, that is really toxic and hazardous and many residents, you know, actually it's, it's very much in the minority when you have black mold is not that often. But. Many folks are very attuned to it and they think everything is black mold and they start coughing. They start having respiratory problems. Whether it's legitimate or not, doesn't matter. You know, it's something that you really have to address. Any properties that have a concrete slab are going to be susceptible to moisture buildup. Any single pane windows are going to have more of a susceptibility to that as well.

[00:13:42] So. Having a, you know, we even have a mold, addendum, that goes along with our rental agreement that explains, the situation with mold and, and what, what to do about it. And that has to do with making sure you keep, your venting on in the bathroom. Because oftentimes it's the vent. I mean, if you don't flip the vent on, and sometimes they're not hooked to the light, which makes it that much less likely. that a, a resident is gonna flip that, that vent on or the, the, the fan is what I'm talking about actually. And so that just has a huge moisture buildup in the bathroom over time. And again, it just, is a, you know, place that mold can start collecting. There's a few things you can do and one of them is getting good venting, making sure beds are not always just against the wall and, and, you push furniture out slightly. You know, making sure that, when you do have mold that you use a product called Killz in the paint that helps to keep mold spores from forming on the wall. But mold is a big issue. And Amanda, we do have a mold, you know, remember about our mold, an addendum at all.

[00:14:48] Amanda: Yes. So it's something that we have our residents sign. it's, it helps us to basically reference back their agreement in partnership with us of what they can do to prevent it. Now sometimes there's going to be things outside of their control. I mean, we've had an instance where we had a house. It's a old house. It has, a very unique kind of a build to it. I believe at one point it may have been some sort of like a store converted into a house and, you know, we had to move residents out of it and kind of do an overhaul, you know, redo the insulation, redo the heating system, that sort of thing.

[00:15:27] That's rare. Normally it's something that the residents can help keep a handle on. A lot of it is in their bathroom and it goes, It kind of falls in line with them not cleaning up after themselves very well, or opening a window or running a fan or you know, a lot. Like I said, a lot of our people are college students.  They don't want to pay an electric bill. They're fine wearing extra sweatshirts and sweat pants, so they keep their heat off. That it's like a type of environment that mold can grow in. And so that's, you know, that it's something that we do with our inspections, that sort of thing.

[00:16:02] Ryan: I think when it comes to having maintenance staff in particular, when they're on payroll, managing them. Is, is super, super important. there's not a lot of people that can work independently, be accountable, get things done in a timely manner without things starting to eventually slide. So, What I mean by that, you want to make sure you're keeping an eye on like how long projects are taking.

[00:16:30] you know, we had a instance where we had kind of a unique property that had like a, like four tiles around the fixture of a faucet and our maintenance guy, it was, Oh yeah, you know, I can handle this. I can do tile work. And. What wasn't getting done, wasn't getting done. Come to find out he really couldn't do it. so, you know, you want to make sure you're tracking like mileage, where they're going, especially if you have company vehicles, which we provide company trucks. But also making sure that things like time limits on projects and knowing how long things should roughly take. Making sure things are done right.

[00:17:06] The first time is huge. we had a maintenance guy that we ended up letting go because nothing was done right the first time. you know, he would go out to fix a clogged toilet. And when he would leave, there would be more problems that he'd caused while he was there that were in fixed, but the toilet was fixed. so we ended up having to let him go and find somebody else that could kind of get it done right the first time.

[00:17:28] Bill: Yeah. Monitoring trips to Lowe's or home Depot is pretty important. I think the word efficient is the word that should be raised between you and your maintenance or turnover folks all the time. How can you become more efficient? How can we help you become more efficient? Let's talk about how often do you go to home Depot, for instance, and when you should go to home Depot? How about, you know, keeping notes on things and, you know, making sure that every. Every time you get in a vehicle, there's a good reason to get into that vehicle rather than being in the house.

[00:18:02] Particularly, you have properties that are spread out geographically. The time will just kill you in terms of the, you know, driving from here to there. So, talking incessantly about. Efficiencies, putting efficiencies in your system of when you're going there,

[00:18:18] Ryan: What supplies should they keep on the truck. you know, what are the, what are the most common things they're running into and kind of being a little bit proactive instead of like, Oh, I don't have any light switch covers at like. 97 cents. Keep a few on the truck, you know, having a little bit of supplies. we've found making sure they have the proper tools. we had a maintenance guy that, you know, quote unquote had all of the tools and we found out, really didn't, and there was a lot of issues with that of, if any of you guys have ever done any mechanical work at all. Having the right tool for the job makes it five times easier than, you know, trying to hold a Flathead in with a pair of pliers will hold in the back and cranking it or something cause you don't have an Allen key or something.

[00:18:58] Andrew: you can use a drill a lot quicker than a screwdriver.

[00:19:03]Bill: you know, one of our hires recently, we knew this guy was a high quality guy, but he came from a contractor who had supplied all his tools. So one of the benefits, we just gave him a hiring benefit, and that was a $1,200 allowance of him buying his own tools.

[00:19:18] I think that was a $1,200 we'll spend on our part because he, you know, he looked for the perfect sale where he could buy these. These are his tools are not our tools. And by the way, most of our maintenance folks, we do have some common tools like pressure washers and other things, but many of them have their own basic tools.

[00:19:36] Amanda: And the reason that we do that is, we feel like if they have ownership of them. They're going to take really good care of them. Whereas if, we own all of them, we're also responsible for keeping track of them and maintaining them, and that, you know, we're just not equipped to handle that. So it's, you know, it's something that they buy their own tools. Oftentimes we'll make an agreement with them that we'll cover certain parts of it, but, you know, especially if they wear it out working for us. But, you know, it's important for us that it, those are their tools and they're responsible for them.

[00:20:09] Ryan: Tools are easy to grow legs.

[00:20:11] Bill: Yeah. And just, keeping conscious of your supplies. Painting supplies just can multiply. Really quickly. Everybody's got to go have that new brush or that new drop cloth or whatever, and it's just, it gets way excessive. I just was actually last week we had to have a dehumidifier, so I went into our shop. There's four large dehumidifiers in there. I can't imagine we're going to need all those at one time, but you know, they were probably bought for legitimate purposes. We probably have 10 fans in there. so I just feel like the proliferation of things, supplies can happen quickly. And my encouragement, again, just to be efficient with the use of supplies, look and make sure have, you know, a running understanding of what is on hand. That you can readily get.

[00:21:01]one thing is to consider down the line is to get a shop as you grow. You know, initially it might just be a, a garage attached to, you know, your house or, you know, your first office that you get a large two car garage or something like that. Eventually you might get a larger shop. Those can really add efficiencies into your, into your maintenance and turnover. kinds of processes.

[00:21:26] Ryan: You're talking more as you start to get up a hundred plus units.

[00:21:29] Bill: Yeah. Yeah. Or double car garages where we started.

[00:21:34] Ryan: Yep, that's what we did in Indy. Amanda, why don't you hop into delinquency

[00:21:39] Amanda: Yep, we're going to move into dealing with resident delinquency. You know, this is, it can, it can creep up on you. So one thing that we find that it's really important with this is just to be specific, spell it out and follow the terms of the lease and do it the exact same every single month so that you're not constantly making agreements with people and then being responsible for holding them to those agreements. So, you know, our process, for instance, in Oregon is rent is due on the first of the month. They have a four day grace period. So after, their four days expire on the fifth of the month that their rent is late, they get dinged with a late fee. So, you know, at that point, they owe their rent plus a late fee.

[00:22:25] In our state after they're late, they have 70 we can post a 72 hour notice three days after they're late with rent. So on the eighth of every month we are hand posting 72 hour notices without fail to everyone. And even if they call and say they're going to pay rent on the 10th we're going to post that 72 hour notice on the eighth because if they don't follow through on the 10th and we have to wait until the 10th to post. Time on that 72 hour notice, running doesn't start until you actually post it. So just follow it every month even no matter what people tell you they're going to do. I mean, maybe if they follow through them and they pay their rent on the 10th that's fine. You don't have to act on that 72 hour notice, but if they don't pay their rent on the 10th on the 11th file, the fed, which that's, you know, in our, that's basically your eviction with the court. We use a company to do that for us. Some States require an attorney. Follow through with it.

[00:23:22] Ryan: You mentioned the 72 hour notice. That's a notice to cure, right? For anyone who doesn't know, basically pay us.

[00:23:28] Amanda: Yes, to catch up. So say you've posted that 72 hour notice and somebody reaches out and they say, you know, I got hurt on the job this month, I'm, you know, I have this money that I'm expecting to come later. Can we make an arrangement? We usually do. We'll allow a written arrangement. oftentimes we'll do it one time per year in a at least period. But we will, we will make arrangements with people, but we make them written so that it's spelled out for us and for them. And it's up to them to follow those, terms of the agreement. And once, you know, once. They, if they don't follow through, we continue on. That doesn't void anything, you know, we'll move forward with an eviction. Nope. We don't want to be making people not have a place to live. But it's also, not our responsibility to provide housing for people that can't pay their rent or communicate with us and follow through with their agreement.

[00:24:22] Bill: This is where the rubber meets the road in terms of, do you have a business or do you have a hobby?

[00:24:28] Ryan: Or a charity.

[00:24:29] Bill: Yeah, because Amanda, I think hit it on the head that, this. You follow through on the day, you should follow through. You keep to the agreement. Again, the bad person here, the bad guy is not you. It's not the resident, but it's the agreement that you've created. It's the contract you created together and you just can't violate the contract. and so I, I think that. Having a business mindset at this point was really hard for me. I have to admit, you know, I, I have a little bit of a soft spot, unlike our other panel members here. They're hard, cold steel, but, anyway, you know, I just let things slide and that, that ended up being not good for me and not good for them because it just doesn't get better. It always gets worse. Just figure that.

[00:25:15] Ryan: Nothing will just send your life into drama quite like believing the excuses and not honoring your agreements. And especially if it's like, I'm going to pay you on this day and they don't pay well, it's coming to them. I mean, you can just get strung out or it really turns into kind of this avalanche of delinquency that then, you've got to go through. I find it's all about proper expectations and that's really what your lease should outline is this is how this works. If you don't pay by this day, this is what happens. If it's not here by this day, this is what happens. And that way there's no, you know, life's hard enough without the drama of, you know, people not paying or choosing to not pay or pushing things back. It's more, you know, find somebody who wants to be in there and it's going to honor the terms of their agreement.

[00:26:05] Amanda: So in wrapping up this episode, you know, basically we're just going to cover again that, you know, back when you're doing your initial rehab, you can save yourself a lot of, heartache on the back end, by, repairing your deficiencies wholly. being mindful that if you think your HVAC system has a year left on it. Be reasonable about if that needs replaced or if the roof is, you know, you're patching leaks rather than replacing a roof. Don't, I mean, just realize that that kind of stuff can come back to get you later and it's hard. It's hard to deal with a resident in the situation while you're repairing their roof or replacing their roof and or replacing an HVAC system right after they moved in, especially if it's maybe a property that came straight from rehab that hasn't been lived in for a while. You want to be complete in what you're doing.

[00:26:56] Bill: I think there is a connection between, the issue of property maintenance and the issue of, you know, dealing with people who, are not paying their rent. And the, and the connection is this, when you go to court sometimes in eviction court, the major issue that's brought up against people who are renting landlords is that the reason that I have a case here of not paying my rent is because they have not maintained my property correctly. And there are some things that you must maintain correctly or you're going to be. on the wrong side of a judgement situation, the electrical system is one of them . having,

[00:27:40]Ryan: some States even allow like them withholding rent.

[00:27:43] Bill: Yes.

[00:27:44] Ryan: If certain things aren't done

[00:27:45] Andrew: in Missouri, they have to put it in escrow, but they can do that.

[00:27:48]Bill: Yes. So, You know you want, maintenance is important for many reasons, but one of which is because you want to be on top of a situation. If things go sideways and you're evict having to evict somebody and you want your maintenance to be that, be such that you're covering everything that's in your tenant and landlord act in your particular state. And I would really recommend that you check the things out in that, document. Every state is slightly different, but in that document, that needs to be a bottom line, supplied to a rental property.

[00:28:24] Ryan: I don't know about you guys, but I don't know that I've had an eviction where the person we're evicting has been like, it's totally my fault. They did nothing wrong. it's always like, Oh, they didn't do this. They didn't do that. This is why I shouldn't have to pay. I mean, it's, and Bill's, right. That's the first thing they're going to throw out as well. This wasn't done right. This was leaking. The toilet ran. I mean, they're going to give out the litany of excuses. Now. Hopefully you get a good judge who, like in Indiana, a lot of the times they'll literally break it down to, did you owe rent? Yes. Did you pay it? No. Case closed, but a lot of the times they still fight quite a bit

[00:29:01] Amanda: We're going to wrap up our episode today. thank you so much for tuning in. If you like what you heard, remember to like and subscribe to the podcast and get your free copy of our ebook. Visit for more information, connect with us and submit any questions or topics you'd like for us to talk about.